No more cesspools

[hotzcatz]

Hmm, I'd be surprised if it passed, usually they just make laws for new conditions and leave existing conditions alone. If they did that, then the next step would be to bring all buildings up to current code when they are sold and that would put an impossible burden on buyers.

[Bar-L]

While building our place in Mexico we lucked out when we hired a guy many would have passed up due to him being 82. Having designed our places ourselves we decided to go against the grain and build and install a septic. Hitting rock at 2" I doubted we would be able to "hand dig". No backhoes etc available.
Now following my worker's suggestions may not be environmentally correct, but one must remember we were in a 3rd world country.
When we couldn't hand sledge/chip any deeper my worker lit a fire in the pit and threw a tire on it....smoke not something I'd recommend.....after about 10 minutes we doused it with cold water....the cracks formed and the hand digging continued.

The positive was the price premium it brought when we sold any of the properties.

Honestly I can see why some would want to regulate things, but I have to feel bad for all the people who are attempting or will be needing to sell their homes that have cesspools. Wonder who will bear that cost?

[terracore]

"Does anyone know if this requirement made it into the law?"

As I understand it, that was the requirement of a bill last year that failed to get enough votes to pass. The Governor's ban circumvented the legislative process and didn't include that provision.

I'm far from an expert, but as I understand it septic systems require soil to be effective and most of the cesspools being added in the state are (were?) in Puna on the Big Island being placed into porous volcanic rock. (they use a big jackhammer attachment on a backhoe- the process doesn't take that long, dynamite hasn't been used in a long time).

Cesspools on the BI have been limited to properties equal to or greater than 1 acre for some time. This was put into place to restrict the amount of sewage going into the ground. The science on banning cesspools is a source of contention. If a property is not near ocean / groundwater / running water (stream) or SOIL there is conflicting evidence on whether a septic system makes things better or worse than a cesspool. (Or are both systems inconsequential when its just a hole in soiless porous rock?) These are typically areas where there are no wells because there is no aquifer and the nearest groundwater is 1000+ feet below the ground. One of the reasons why these areas use water catchment instead of wells to get water.

So what does all this mean? Say a family buys an acre of lava rock for $6k and puts their unpermitted shack on it. If a cesspool is $3k and a septic system is $10k, at what point does economics make them decide if the ranch uphill from them has 50,000 animals crapping and urinating on the ground.... well if its good enough for them its good enough for me?

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Originally Posted by swinzas

If you can't afford to live there, move.

That was quite helpful. Added a lot of facts to the discussion. Thanks.

[smarino]

They should never have allowed them to begin with. Raw sewage has been going into the ground water. It really has nothing to do with money (and land on the B.I. in rural areas is something that anyone can afford, so no need to trot out that affordability card), it's about common sense, basic safety regulations. I'll bet that someone who is living a rural life off grid w/ a compost toilet and a composting pile for their veggie garden makes very little waste, so there's that angle too.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by smarino

They should never have allowed them to begin with. Raw sewage has been going into the ground water. It really has nothing to do with money (and land on the B.I. in rural areas is something that anyone can afford, so no need to trot out that affordability card)..

It has something to do with money, otherwise several Big Island legislators wouldn't have fought this move. Tens of thousands $, according to them.

I didn't know people drank well water in Paradise Park.

Big Island lawmakers lobbied against cesspool ban | Hawaii Tribune-Herald

“Additionally, wastewater has been shown to be polluting drinking water wells. In Hawaiian Paradise Park … 50 percent of drinking water wells sampled tested positive for fecal indicator bacteria. Pathogens associated with this indicator bacteria can live for months in groundwater. These results indicate that cesspools can be immediate human health hazards.”

[hotzcatz]

Did they mention the number of wells in HPP? It would be interesting to see if the number is greater than a dozen or so.

[Arktikos]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Did they mention the number of wells in HPP? It would be interesting to see if the number is greater than a dozen or so.

I don't think it was mentioned in that article.

A google search revealed an article that mentioned there are a "few" wells in HPP, mostly near the coast.

[hotzcatz]

That would make sense economically since the more expensive houses are closer to the ocean and it's pretty expensive to drill a well, but I don't know if there's much water there what with the ocean so close and all.

If there are six to eight wells sampled, you'd only need three to four of them to test positive to get to the '50%' amount. If they said 'four wells tested positive' that wouldn't sell newspapers. When you call the same four wells '50% of all wells', well then, that's much more alarming, isn't it? It also doesn't mention if there were cesspools on the property next to the water wells. The houses may have contaminated their own water.

A lot of times they just import the rule books from the mainland without checking to see if the standard rules fit Hawaii. What works in an area of soil doesn't work in an area of porous lava rock. Drilling water wells is a fairly new thing for residences on this island, they may not have had enough data to figure out the proper distances from sources of contamination to drinking water wells for the type of soil we have in some areas of this island.