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I am considering moving to the Big Island for a slower and simpler lifestyle. Based on my proposed timing, the move would be in five years (2021), when my daughter will be graduated from high school, and my son will be starting high school. Not that it should matter, but we are white.
My initial thought is to "buy" a Bishop leasehold farm property with a 3 bedroom house on it, with 2-11 acres with a mix of coffee, mac nuts, cacao, other fruit trees and a vegetable garden. I would like to be south of Kona in the Captain Cook area. We would fully embrace the aloha life. We would be retired with a good nest egg, but we would spend a lot of time farming as well as a hobby and for some side income. We also plan on buying a property that has additional buildings that can be rented as either vacation rentals or long-term rentals.
1) How are the public schools on the Big Island? My son is not the type that will be overachieving in AP classes and such, but I want him to get a good education and feel safe at school. I have looked at ratings, but I just don't think that standardized test scores tell the story of how good a school is.
2) Do you think that it would be difficult for my children to establish a life on the mainland after living in Hawaii?
3) What is the perception of the farming community there? Are neighboring farmers friendly and willing to share knowledge, or would I be shunned for being a white outsider? Are farmers struggling? Are there certain crops that come with certain environmental or economic issues? Are there certain crops that are in high demand?
4) Have you heard any stories (good or bad) about being on a Bishop leasehold property vs. a fee simple?
5) A big thing that I want to get away from is keeping up with the jones's. Is there a lot of keeping up with the jones's on the Big Island? I am assuming that there is not, but I just want to be sure.
6) My thought is that we would do a once a year trip to a neighboring island. For anyone that lives in Hawaii, do you end up doing this, or do you really just stay home, when it comes down to it?
I am considering moving to the Big Island for a slower and simpler lifestyle. Based on my proposed timing, the move would be in five years (2021), when my daughter will be graduated from high school, and my son will be starting high school.
Planning is always good, although things may change within the five year period. But you can keep track of things and have a better feel for the area having watched it via online sources.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
Not that it should matter, but we are white.
It shouldn't matter, but it will in most likely small ways so you may not even notice which would be good. What will matter will be that you're new to the island, so there will most likely be more effects from that than ethnicity.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
My initial thought is to "buy" a Bishop leasehold farm property with a 3 bedroom house on it, with 2-11 acres with a mix of coffee, mac nuts, cacao, other fruit trees and a vegetable garden. I would like to be south of Kona in the Captain Cook area. We would fully embrace the aloha life. We would be retired with a good nest egg, but we would spend a lot of time farming as well as a hobby and for some side income. We also plan on buying a property that has additional buildings that can be rented as either vacation rentals or long-term rentals.
I don't know the details of Bishop Estate leases, but they do get either renewed or not renewed every so many years. If Bishop decides to do something other than lease the land, you could be out of a farm later on. If it were annual crops, it probably wouldn't matter, but trees take awhile to get established and produce.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
1) How are the public schools on the Big Island? My son is not the type that will be overachieving in AP classes and such, but I want him to get a good education and feel safe at school. I have looked at ratings, but I just don't think that standardized test scores tell the story of how good a school is.
You can do a lot of your son's education at home. If the school doesn't offer something you think he should know, maybe how to compare mortgages, start and a small (possibly farming) business, even open a bank account or the socially correct things in various situations, etc., then you'd be able to teach him yourself. Generally island schools aren't exactly top notch, but it doesn't sound like he would want a challenging school.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
2) Do you think that it would be difficult for my children to establish a life on the mainland after living in Hawaii?
Yes, it would be harder and for a variety of reasons. They would most likely have less education than their mainland counterparts and they wouldn't have the ground support of having family nearby unless there's some other relatives who would be able to help him. However, there is a certain cachet from being from Hawaii, so that may help offset any obstacles from being 'not from around here' when setting up in a new location. There will also be the rural versus big city background which in some cases can add another hurdle to thriving.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
3) What is the perception of the farming community there? Are neighboring farmers friendly and willing to share knowledge, or would I be shunned for being a white outsider? Are farmers struggling? Are there certain crops that come with certain environmental or economic issues? Are there certain crops that are in high demand?
There will be a certain level of stand offishness for the first year or two because you're a newcomer, not because you're white. There are so many people who move here all full of spit and ginger and then they flail around for about a year and then disappear. It's just so much easier to watch newcomers thrash around for a year or two and make sure they're gonna stick around before socially investing too much into them. Folks aren't going to be mean or anything, but you won't be part of the ohana right away.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
4) Have you heard any stories (good or bad) about being on a Bishop leasehold property vs. a fee simple?
Nope, haven't heard any, but I've not been listening. We're on the other side of the island so we'd not be part of the coconut wireless on that side of the island.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
5) A big thing that I want to get away from is keeping up with the jones's. Is there a lot of keeping up with the jones's on the Big Island? I am assuming that there is not, but I just want to be sure.
I don't think we have any Jones around here. Now keeping up with the Fujimoto's - that's different. We've got loads of those folks and that's a good thing. Keeping up with the Fujimotos (or the Kaneshiros or the Leialohas or Paivas, etc.) generally means you show up to the Obon dances, buy laulau and sweet bread tickets from the high school kids selling things to make money for their mainland school trip, help with the local events, share your abundance with your neighbors, attend social events, see if your kapuna neighbor needs a ride to town when you're going, etc.
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Originally Posted by Family Moving to Hawaii
6) My thought is that we would do a once a year trip to a neighboring island. For anyone that lives in Hawaii, do you end up doing this, or do you really just stay home, when it comes down to it?
We end up going to the mainland much more often than another island. Although sometimes the planes go to Honolulu or Maui on their way to somewhere else so sometimes we will spend a day there on the way to or from the mainland. Sometimes we have to go to Honolulu for a meeting or medical thing, but generally for vacations we go elsewhere.
hotcatz, that's an incredibly helpful post! While my husband and I don't have school-aged children, so schools wouldn't be a concern for us, so much of the other info will be something that will help us settle in once we're able to buy our place (no more than 2 years from now, with luck). Especially the parts about getting involved in the community. As a near-hermit, myself (agoraphobia), I would love to somehow become involved with local area community (I can get out and about when Z accompanies me--I just can't seem to bring myself to go out on my own). It would benefit me, as well as others, if we were able to be helpful. I get lonely for a social life since moving 350 miles away from the rest of my family. It's just Z and me, here. Having a social life would be something I might enjoy. Where we live, a block from the beach, all the houses that surround us are vacation rentals, and we only meet someone if a visitor is out in a yard or somesuch, but we try to go to community events, which I find enjoyable when I'm with Z :-). People in Hawaii always seemed so nice when we were there that I would like to think it would be even nicer and easier to get involved with community activities over there.
Some communities are easier to get involved with than others. If you can find one of about 2,500 people or less, then it's small enough that the people will see you, recognize that they've seen you before and are likely to start a conversation with you at some point. Or you can chat with them and they will have time to chat back. especially since they will perceive you as someone 'from around here'. When you get into a larger population group, then there's so many people that the less bold folks are frequently overlooked.
Kinda like if you join a club with a dozen members, everyone will know that you are new and wander over to talk to you. If you join a club with twelve hundred members, folks who don't know you won't necessarily come over and introduce themselves since they won't know that you're new because there's so many people.
There are also different groups to join. The folks who are extroverts like to join the theater groups, the dance groups, etc., whereas the introverts are more likely to choose the gardening groups or the Friends of the Library and such.
From what you've said, it doesn't sound like you've ever been to the Big Island or Hawaii. You may be just looking at it from afar on the Internet, when it's actually quite a bit different when you are there in person. We've been to the Big Island twice, plus the other major islands. Each island has it's unique aspects, although we preferred the Big Island over the other islands. We initially thought about renting a VRBO vacation rental in the Captain Cook area, but decided to rent in Waikoloa Village, which is a dry, irrigated area and near Honokaa, which is a wet area, but not as wet as it gets. Every day, we drove around the Big Island a lot to explore almost the entire island. Whenever we drove through the Captain Cook area, we were extremely happy that we didn't rent in that area, because the VOG in that area was pretty bad. Just driving in that area gave me a sore throat, when quickly went away when we got away from that area. It reminded me of driving through Gary, Indiana many decades ago, before all the heavy industry was off-shored to China. I remember seeing a thick dark grey dome in the skies ahead of us when about 40 miles away from Gary, Indiana so many decades ago, giving me a bad sore throat. Maybe we were unlucky and happened to drive through the Captain Cook area when it happened to have a lot of VOG in the air. The VOG wasn't as bad as Gary, Indiana decades ago, not even close, but I would certainly not want to live there, unless the bad VOG is a rare event over the long term.
It takes a lot of money to live in Hawaii compared to many other places. Even when your nest egg is north of a million dollars, it could still be troubling to think how much more it costs to live in Hawaii, since your money won't go as far as other places. Although there are lower cost areas, like the Puna district that has lower costs, but has other issues, such as higher crime. The climate and environment on the Big Island is amazingly beautiful, as long as you stay away from the VOG. There are so many climate zones on the Big Island, so you have to decide what kind of climate you want, to determine where to locate on the island. The proximity to schools may also be a factor. Many people on the forum have stated that they would only consider sending their children to private schools, since the public schools are so far below many mainland schools, at a cost of about $15K to $20K per child per year. But if your child is not a high achiever, then maybe the public schools would be good enough for them. However, there could be serious problems down the road when your children end up working at low-wage, part-time, no-benefits jobs, leading them to a dim future. Maybe you could supplement your children's public school education with free education on the Internet.
I suggest that you do a lot more research and plan a vacation for a couple weeks to check out the Big Island in person. The way you think about the Big Island will change drastically after your first visit. Don't stay in the tourist hotels and areas, but instead in a vacation rental property, farther from the main tourist areas. After your first visit, you will have a much better thought process about the possibility of living on the Big Island in the future. You might decide that Hawaii isn't for you, or you might want to immediately planning for your next vacation back to the Big Island for your next visit. If you can't afford to take a start vacation to the Big Island, there's no way you'll be able to afford living there. There are homeless people wandering around, collecting cans for the recycling money and eating out of garbage cans, especially around Hilo. The homeless live there for next to nothing, but that's not a lifestyle that most people would want to live.
There are a couple schools in the Kealakekua area nearby, though I haven't heard anything about their reputations.
Bishop changed their name to Kamehameha schools, in a PR related move. I have a friend who owns one of these properties in Honaunau, with a group of other Alaskans, and they're satisfied with the situation. I hear they're emphasizing the requirement to farm more than in the past, which is no problem for this group. Also, I gather that it's not likely you could realize much of a profit by selling your lease at some time, if that's a consideration.
It is a beautiful area. The vog has never bothered me during my brief stays there, FWIW. Not sure I'd like to experience it on a constant basis, however.
I think you'd find the farming community pleasant and helpful, when you eventually made some contacts.
There's very little of the "keeping up with the Jones", from what I've seen.
Thank you Hotzcatz and everyone else for the feedback. I was at the Big Island a few months ago and did in fact stay at a VRBO not in the heart of the tourist area but still in Kona. As soon as I got home, I started planning my next trip back. We are actually going to Maui next year and were at Kauai a few years ago. I have heard about the VOG, but I didn't notice it when I was there. I think that is something that we would need to experience a little more next time we are at the Big Island to make sure that it is something that we can live with.
We have lived on the BI for six years, and only once did vog bother me (itchy eyes and scratchy throat). I can smell it in the air sometimes, but usually nothing worse. It really depends on where you are on the island and how sensitive you are. My sister-in-law visited me and had major breathing problems. We live near South Point and the trade winds blow the vog past us on most days. However, it does continue on around to the west side of the island and eddys around Kailua-Kona, which seems to be always hazy. And sometimes the winds blow vog up to Maui and other parts of the state.
We live in a rural area and there does seem to be camaraderie in the farming community. Hotzcatz is spot on (again) about giving people a chance to accept you. We have a lot of small growers, and they do share experiences. There is also a lot of opportunity to trade both produce and animals.
University of Hawaii has excellent agricultural information. Check out CTAHR Cooperative Extension Service.
Thank you Hotzcatz and everyone else for the feedback. I was at the Big Island a few months ago and did in fact stay at a VRBO not in the heart of the tourist area but still in Kona. As soon as I got home, I started planning my next trip back. We are actually going to Maui next year and were at Kauai a few years ago. I have heard about the VOG, but I didn't notice it when I was there. I think that is something that we would need to experience a little more next time we are at the Big Island to make sure that it is something that we can live with.
It didn't sound like you visited the Big Island in person to me, from my take on your first post, but you're doing it the right way by avoiding the tourist areas and hotels. If you think back to before your first visit to the Big Island and compare it to what you think of the Big Island now, I'm sure your impression has changed after your visit. We visited the Big Island for a week, then Maui for a week, then Oahu for a couple of days. The next year, we visited the Big Island for a week, then Kauai for a week. A week is enough time to get a good taste of the area, but more time on the ground is needed.
On Maui, I'm glad we didn't stay in Lahaina, we stayed in Pukalani, which was a nice area. Lahaina is OK to visit, but the area is like tourism on steroids, much more than Kona. There's a lot to see on Maui, but you won't be able to drive the whole perimeter of the island, unless you have nerves of steel and not a lot of regard for your personal safety, so I wasn't able to drive the whole perimeter, plus the car rental companies probably don't allow it. If you can handle extreme sports like hang gliding and mountain climbing, then you're probably fine with driving around the perimeter of Maui.
Maybe your're not as sensitive to the VOG as I am, or the conditions were different when you visited. I only had trouble with the VOG when we drove through the Captain Cook area. The rest of the Big Island was fine, although in the afternoons we saw the VOG haze in the upper elevations of the Kona area, but never noticed the VOG when breathing in the Kona area, even in the afternoons. But only a week long visit is just too short to know for certain. Maybe it was just some bad VOG days that happened when we were visiting.
Maybe your're not as sensitive to the VOG as I am, or the conditions were different when you visited. I only had trouble with the VOG when we drove through the Captain Cook area. The rest of the Big Island was fine, although in the afternoons we saw the VOG haze in the upper elevations of the Kona area, but never noticed the VOG when breathing in the Kona area, even in the afternoons. But only a week long visit is just too short to know for certain. Maybe it was just some bad VOG days that happened when we were visiting.
The voggiest part of the Big Island we experienced was right up at Kilauea crater, both times we visited (once by day, once by night). Both days, the measuring devices up there said that the area we were in was in the high/unhealthy SO2 area. You could see it, and even vaguely smell it, but despite all that, it didn't bother my eyes, lungs or head(ache) at all. I found that curious, considering how bad my allergies are here at home. I may be wrong, because my experiences all come from a 2 week visit to the BI last February, but one would think that, if you want to know how Vog affects you, that visiting Hawaii Volcanoes Nat'l Park and heading over to the lookout where you can see Kilauea's smoking crater would be the place to go. The whole place was grey with Vog on the days we visited. It costs to get into the park, but the pass is good for an entire week. If you get a good air day one visit, you could always try a couple of more visits on different days. Sooner or later, I'll bet you'd find yourself among the Vog up there.
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