Ocean View/HOVE/HOVR: crime? (low income, for sale, crime rates)

[swartzfeger]

Originally Posted by 67Cam

I would suggest doing a little research. You can own a gun in Hawaii. You can bring one with you. You just have to register it. Less than 5 min of Google search and you can find this out. The issue youll have is there are no gun ranges on the big island to shoot. Not legal ones anyway.

I did less than 5 minutes of research because bringing/owning (at this point) just isn't a priority for me. I could apply for a NYC gun permit, too. Wouldn't bother. I'm not being snarky, but I have better things to do my first 5 days when I arrive, like sitting in the DMV for 8 hours.

Not a lawyer or a judge, but I'm familiar with may-issue/no-issue and open carry, concealed, etc. Cooperating with a beauracracy/police chief that doesn't wanna cooperate with me just ain't my thing. Owning a shotgun for the house at some point? Sure, I'd consider it. The other stuff, no thanks.

[hotzcatz]

Actually, you had a pretty good idea earlier - get a giraffe instead of a gun. If you had a giraffe, your neighbors would get to know you really quick and they'd help watch your house.

With the whole theft thing, part of the answer to that is to make your house less appealing than the next one the thieves are looking at. This isn't well thought out crime, this is mostly just opportunistic things. If you have neighbors who are there all the time, if you have fences, a gate and a yappy dog, or that giraffe - most thieves would pass you by.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by davephan

The root of the problem is liberalism. There isn't the will to crack down on criminals. Liberals want to "understand" and "coddle" the criminals, instead of locking them up and throwing away the key.

The problem with this theory is that the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

Prison is also a status symbol. Culturally it is ingrained into low-economic culture. Another factor is the serious drug addiction and drug addict issues that are rampant across the United States.

[leilaniguy]

Drug addiction is the main problem, Ice, Batu, Meth, whatever it is called, same thing, is rampant here, mostly because of the stupid anal government marijuana prohibition which caused this major problem. And yes, incarceration is useless and very expensive.

[KauaiHiker]

If you're a libertarian, the answer is easy: pay for it yourself. Want water, pay for collection, well, or tanker truck. Want roads, pay for private company to build them. Want security, pay for fences, dogs, or security guards. Want mail, either take it there yourself or at least don't complain about the price of postage (private courier of course).

I really don't understand why people who live in a place that is impossible to police with county budgets expect the county to police it. The thieves have figured this out, they are smarter than you.

[davephan]

Interesting responses. The US incarceration rates are too high. Incarceration doesn't help. Have someone watch your property at all times, 24 x 7 x 365.

Clearly, there is a severe problem with crime that is out of control. An area that is as large as Oahu covered by only 4 cops during the day, and 2 cops at night, isn't enough resources for effective law and order. Since the police response time can be 30 minutes, and others have said the response time is 2 hours, the citizens need to be part of the solution, which means arming the law abiding citizens. Adding one cop for each shift was quoted at about $500K per year. Adding only one cop per shift wouldn't make any significant difference in the problem.

The lenient justice system seems to be part of the problem. Criminals need to serve hard time. There should be a 3-time loser law. Repeat criminals need to be locked up for life. Stand your ground laws would help protect the citizens when waiting for the long police response times. The judges that are weak on punishment should be voted out, since the weak judges are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Incarceration is very expensive in the US. That is the reason that long-term incarceration laws would need to be adopted to offshore the long-term incarceration to 3rd world counties, to significantly reduce the long-term incarceration costs. Forced, hard labor in foreign 3rd world prisons would help reduce crime problems. Criminals would not want to return to forced hard-labor prisons after completing their sentences.

The lack of a gun range on the Big Island sounds like a business opportunity for an entrepreneur. If an outdoor gun range isn't possible, maybe an indoor gun range would be possible.

Or, nothing could be done to improve law and order. Another well could be added for more drinking water. Midnight basketball could be adopted for the bored youth. People could never leave their properties to guard them, except when they trade guarding shifts with their neighbors. Crime will only get worse. The number of crime victims will continue to grow. The criminals will continue to laugh at the weak responses to law and order.

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by davephan

Incarceration is very expensive in the US. That is the reason that long-term incarceration laws would need to be adopted to offshore the long-term incarceration to 3rd world counties, to significantly reduce the long-term incarceration costs. Forced, hard labor in foreign 3rd world prisons would help reduce crime problems. Criminals would not want to return to forced hard-labor prisons after completing their sentences.

Country with the lowest recidivism rate in the world? Norway. And it has a very liberal prison system. California has a 3-strikes law and it has been a huge disaster for the state. Prisoners with 3 convictions for shop-lifting doing life. Does that make sense? Not to me. The trouble with 3-strikes laws is they start out targeting violent criminals, but then lawmakers try to out tough-on-crime each other and keep lowering the bar until it sweeps up everybody.

[swartzfeger]

Originally Posted by KauaiHiker

If you're a libertarian, the answer is easy: pay for it yourself. Want water, pay for collection, well, or tanker truck. Want roads, pay for private company to build them. Want security, pay for fences, dogs, or security guards. Want mail, either take it there yourself or at least don't complain about the price of postage (private courier of course).

I lived pretty far out in the Arizona desert for 12 years; Scottsdale mailing address, but technically we were in unincorporated Maricopa County (we bordered the Tonto National 'Forest'). This is more or less how we handled it. Self-sufficient/reliant. We graded our own roads after a monsoon, etc. Fire service? lol. We kept our property clear of brush... other than that, we had extra long hoses and hoped for the best.

We had virtually no crime. A rare disgruntled ranch hand walking off with power tools or whatever. One year we had a drunk take out a section of a ranch fence with a truck. Not once did I see a county sheriff on our roads or neck of the woods. Maybe a few times a week I'd see them screaming down Dynamite Rd (main road that took you from Phoenix to Fountain Hills, AZ).

It was understood by most that if you broke into someone's home, you'd probably be met with lead and a dog.

Was it a deterrent? I can't say. Maybe, maybe not.

The bigger deterrent I think was simply distance... who is going to drive from Phoenix (about an hour) down washboard roads to have your teeth rattled loose to take a chance?

I was the dirtbag on my road, living in 'only' a $500k log cabin. My neighbors a few acres to either side couldn't care less about my unlocked WRX or the dob telescope that always sat out on my back deck.

Property tax attracts a certain demographic, I think. My neighbors, if they were criminally minded, were much more likely to cheat their employees or steal from the IRS vs breaking into my home or someone down the road.

So I'm wondering (thinking out loud here...)... are people *really* driving from Puna/Pahoa because of opportunity to commit? Or is it (relatively speaking) neighbor on neighbor crime?

Regardless of my own personal philosophy on it, you can't incarcerate someone you don't catch, and you're not going to catch anyone with two officers. And you have two officers because of low property tax (or maybe I'm not seeing something from my high horse 4000 miles away).

[swartzfeger]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

Country with the lowest recidivism rate in the world? Norway. And it has a very liberal prison system. California has a 3-strikes law and it has been a huge disaster for the state. Prisoners with 3 convictions for shop-lifting doing life. Does that make sense? Not to me. The trouble with 3-strikes laws is they start out targeting violent criminals, but then lawmakers try to out tough-on-crime each other and keep lowering the bar until it sweeps up everybody.

Call me cynical, but incarceration (here in the states) attracts a broad spectrum of support. Conservatives ("lock 'em up!) and liberals (unions). Prisoners need guards. Union pay with benefits and pension.

[hotzcatz]

Back in the mid '80's, Hawaiian Acres had a huge theft problem. Hundreds of break ins every month and it was a very similar situation to the one in HOVE. Large subdivision, scattered houses, not the highest income levels of the residents, etc. very similar to HOVE. There wasn't as much ice/meth around then, though, since everyone was still growing pot at that time. The Hawaiian Acres folks got themselves organized and put together a very vigilant Neighborhood Watch. If you didn't have a sticker for Hawaiian Acres on your car, they'd follow and ask you if you were lost and where you were going. License plates were written down along with time, description of the people and make and model of the car. If you lived in Hawaiian Acres and had a problem, one call on the CB (this was before cell phones) would result in several pickup trucks full of Neighborhood watch folks arriving at your house. Within one month, thefts and break ins in Hawaiian Acres went down to less than two per month and frequently there'd be none.

It doesn't take that much to put together a Neighborhood Watch. If you have a problem in your neighborhood, you can easily be part of the solution.