Ocean View/HOVE/HOVR: crime? (2014, violent crime, neighborhoods)

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by swartzfeger

Call me cynical, but incarceration (here in the states) attracts a broad spectrum of support. Conservatives ("lock 'em up!) and liberals (unions). Prisoners need guards. Union pay with benefits and pension.

I don't have a problem with locking people up. I get really sick of crime on Maui. But I think 3-strikes laws are not a good idea. Breaking into cars is a big problem here. Does someone who breaks into a car 3 times deserve to spend the rest of his life in jail?

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

Breaking into cars is a big problem here. Does someone who breaks into a car 3 times deserve to spend the rest of his life in jail?

Enough of the exaggeration please. Simply breaking into a car 3 times doesn't qualify for 3 strikes punishment in California. The first 2 strikes must be serious/violent felonies.

[TwoByFour]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Enough of the exaggeration please. Simply breaking into a car 3 times doesn't qualify for 3 strikes punishment in California. The first 2 strikes must be serious/violent felonies.

You are right, under the new law. But from 1990 - 2012 California law considered non-violent crimes such as burglary to be a "strike". It was insanely disproportionate and was rightfully repealed.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by davephan

Interesting responses. The US incarceration rates are too high. Incarceration doesn't help. Have someone watch your property at all times, 24 x 7 x 365.

Clearly, there is a severe problem with crime that is out of control. An area that is as large as Oahu covered by only 4 cops during the day, and 2 cops at night, isn't enough resources for effective law and order. Since the police response time can be 30 minutes, and others have said the response time is 2 hours, the citizens need to be part of the solution, which means arming the law abiding citizens. Adding one cop for each shift was quoted at about $500K per year. Adding only one cop per shift wouldn't make any significant difference in the problem.

The lenient justice system seems to be part of the problem. Criminals need to serve hard time. There should be a 3-time loser law. Repeat criminals need to be locked up for life. Stand your ground laws would help protect the citizens when waiting for the long police response times. The judges that are weak on punishment should be voted out, since the weak judges are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Incarceration is very expensive in the US. That is the reason that long-term incarceration laws would need to be adopted to offshore the long-term incarceration to 3rd world counties, to significantly reduce the long-term incarceration costs. Forced, hard labor in foreign 3rd world prisons would help reduce crime problems. Criminals would not want to return to forced hard-labor prisons after completing their sentences.

The lack of a gun range on the Big Island sounds like a business opportunity for an entrepreneur. If an outdoor gun range isn't possible, maybe an indoor gun range would be possible.

Or, nothing could be done to improve law and order. Another well could be added for more drinking water. Midnight basketball could be adopted for the bored youth. People could never leave their properties to guard them, except when they trade guarding shifts with their neighbors. Crime will only get worse. The number of crime victims will continue to grow. The criminals will continue to laugh at the weak responses to law and order.

I don't think guns help much either. There is just as much crime in gun-friendly states as there is in states that try to curtail guns. Criminals aren't deterred by less strict gun laws at all.

There is an element of American society that is going to commit crimes, and I think statistically it is strongly connected to substance abuse issues, drug epidemics, etc. No matter if citizens carry around guns, or if we create stricter penalties, or if we put more police out there, or if we continue to lock up a ton of people. At the end of the day, there is just a serious drug epidemic, and a lot of people are committing crimes to make their 'sickness' tolerable for that day.

I can see the gun argument as an argument to protect yourself when you are living in a society that has gone violent and drug-addicted. But it doesn't bring down crime at all.

Sadly, I think crime is there to stay in the United States. I have no clue how the United States could even begin to deal with those issues. Probably needs to start with more campaigns to discourage drug taking...but the culture of drugs are so ingrained into American culture, I don't see it going away anytime in our lifetimes. Its glamorourized by all our musicians, our movies, etc.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

But from 1990 - 2012 California law considered non-violent crimes such as burglary to be a "strike". It was insanely disproportionate and was rightfully repealed.

Only the last strike. 3 strikes has never been 3 minor offenses.

[Grassyknoll]

I own a house in OV and have been living here with my family for going on three years. I feel no more at risk of crime here than I did when living in rural Alaska and California.
I bought my house partly due to it's security configuration. My house can be seen by all my neighbors. Want to become a target for opportunistic property theft? Buy a secluded house surrounded by trees or bushes where thieves can work unseen.
Most crime here seems to be people stealing from within their own circles of acquaintances and also break-ins of vacation or unattended homes.
Basic security precautions go a long way.

[swartzfeger]

Originally Posted by Grassyknoll

I own a house in OV and have been living here with my family for going on three years. I feel no more at risk of crime here than I did when living in rural Alaska and California.
I bought my house partly due to it's security configuration. My house can be seen by all my neighbors. Want to become a target for opportunistic property theft? Buy a secluded house surrounded by trees or bushes where thieves can work unseen.
Most crime here seems to be people stealing from within their own circles of acquaintances and also break-ins of vacation or unattended homes.
Basic security precautions go a long way.

Good to know, GK, thanks for chiming in... I was hoping an OV resident would shed some light.

I think my girlfriend has all but written off OV based on the newspaper article, but your comments ease a lot of my fears. My hope was that a fence, lights/motion sensor, dog and most of all just getting to know your neighbors and being active in the area would make OV really no different than Backwoods, USA.

[mikereilly]

Originally Posted by TwoByFour

Country with the lowest recidivism rate in the world? Norway. And it has a very liberal prison system. California has a 3-strikes law and it has been a huge disaster for the state. Prisoners with 3 convictions for shop-lifting doing life. Does that make sense? Not to me. The trouble with 3-strikes laws is they start out targeting violent criminals, but then lawmakers try to out tough-on-crime each other and keep lowering the bar until it sweeps up everybody.

Norway has at least two things going for it in terms of crime. Firstly, it's prison system is focused on rehabilitation and education. Secondly, it has the best education system in the world, which results in fewer first time offenders. There is a strong correlation between poor education and high crime rates. I suppose you could also add poverty into the equation. Norway's 'poor' are much better off than the US's poor. HOVE has a very low income level, as to many of Puna district's subdivisions, and not suprisingly, a higher crime rate.

Research tells us that increasing punishment is a poor deterrent for crime. What does act as a deterrent is probability of punishment. Because policing levels are low in HOVE, probability of punishment is low and crime is allowed to thrive.

[mikereilly]

Originally Posted by swartzfeger

Good to know, GK, thanks for chiming in... I was hoping an OV resident would shed some light.

I think my girlfriend has all but written off OV based on the newspaper article, but your comments ease a lot of my fears. My hope was that a fence, lights/motion sensor, dog and most of all just getting to know your neighbors and being active in the area would make OV really no different than Backwoods, USA.

You are correct for the most part. Fence, lights, motion sensor, dog, security cameras all contribute to higher security. Dogs are a very popular security system on the Big Island.

[Jerseagirl01]

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