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I think UA probably doesn't want to see UAB get really good in sports, or UAB get really big as a school. I think the only way they think that could happen is at the expense of UA which is not entirely wrong, but certainly not right either. We'll just have to wait until the BOT can get written out of existence in its current form by state legislation and maybe they can come back with football in 3-4 years.
Something we agree on. Fundamentally, I look at the BOT. Out of 17 members, only two are graduates of UAB. Zero from UAH.
From the wiki page, which I don't know how accurate it is:
"The Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama is a self-nominating board composed of 15 elected members and two ex officio members. The makeup of the Board is dictated by the Constitution of the State of Alabama, and requires that the board be made up of three members from the congressional district that contains the Tuscaloosa campus, and two members from every other congressional district in Alabama."
Two key problems. First, its self nominating. Really? Thats awefully convenient. Second, while in theory a member from Huntsville's congressional district, or Birmingham's, might indicate support for the schools that are in that district, doesn't mean diddly if they graduated from Alabama since that's going to be the school they end up supporting more.
This. What the boneheaded money guys don't understand is that a football team is integral to student life on a major college campus. Even MIT now fields a football team. This is why the large majority of college football programs are heavily subsidized by the colleges. Because it is essential to the school's overall brand, even when it simply cannot be quantified on a balance sheet. There's even an accounting term for it, goodwill, that deals with the intangibles that contribute to an organization's value. In that sense, even if UAB's program lost $2,000,000 last year before subsidies, that's chump change compared to the $2.5 billion in revenue the school took in.
The problem with the criticism leveled at UAB is that it comes from the perspective of Auburn, Alabama, and FSU, three enormous programs that bring in profit. Yet those programs are very much the exception as opposed to the rule in college football.
In truth, UAB has average support for programs in its conference and a decent coach would have likely grown the fan base. No amount of spin on the part of Watt's apologists can make that go away. That's why there has been such outcry over scrapping the program. It's not just about the football team. It's about the UAB brand.
UAB has enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship with the region over the past 40 years. As UAB has prospered, so has the city. So when the BoT decides to scrap one of the visible emblem of the University over a paltry couple of million -- especially when the program is showing signs of life -- it is really seen as an attack on the region itself by people who don't attend the games or even care about the sport at all.
This article is a little old, but this supports your point clearly:
Something we agree on. Fundamentally, I look at the BOT. Out of 17 members, only two are graduates of UAB. Zero from UAH.
From the wiki page, which I don't know how accurate it is:
"The Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama is a self-nominating board composed of 15 elected members and two ex officio members. The makeup of the Board is dictated by the Constitution of the State of Alabama, and requires that the board be made up of three members from the congressional district that contains the Tuscaloosa campus, and two members from every other congressional district in Alabama."
Two key problems. First, its self nominating. Really? Thats awefully convenient. Second, while in theory a member from Huntsville's congressional district, or Birmingham's, might indicate support for the schools that are in that district, doesn't mean diddly if they graduated from Alabama since that's going to be the school they end up supporting more.
I can't speak for Huntsville, but I sure can speak for Birmingham. The metro area of Birmingham represents one-fourth of the state's population, but accounts for one-third of the state's GDP. The fact that only one-seventh of the BoT resides in the Birmingham metro is idiotic. Yet another reason to remove the A from UAB.
In 2009, only 14 of 120 FBS programs made money. The rest broke even or lost money.
There was some reports just recently about several schools actually losing money on bowl games.
Thanks for that.
Here's the thing. Colleges are not just about going to class. They are about the life of the student, the ability to explore interests and hobbies, and the ability to make friends and connections. One of the things that UAB struggled with early on was that it had zero student life, hence the recent efforts to build student housing and achieve much more of a campus feel.
Students want a game to attend. Even if they're not athletes, they like being in the band, the dance team, the cheerleading squad, and all the other things that go with the experience.
I can't speak for Huntsville, but I sure can speak for Birmingham. The metro area of Birmingham represents one-fourth of the state's population, but accounts for one-third of the state's GDP. The fact that only one-seventh of the BoT resides in the Birmingham metro is idiotic. Yet another reason to remove the A from UAB.
Not sure I understand your point. Fundamentally though, UA is a nationally regional school. 40 percent are out of state. UAB is roughly 8 percent. UAH is 10 percent.
While I couldn't find any county statistics, if UAB is like UAH, most of the students come from the surrounding areas. I'm sure UAB pulls medical students across the entire state like UAH pulls engineering students across the state.
Not sure I understand your point. Fundamentally though, UA is a nationally regional school. 40 percent are out of state. UAB is roughly 8 percent. UAH is 10 percent.
While I couldn't find any county statistics, if UAB is like UAH, most of the students come from the surrounding areas. I'm sure UAB pulls medical students across the entire state like UAH pulls engineering students across the state.
My point is a pretty simple one. Despite Alabama being how you define it, UAB has a much, much larger impact on the local and regional economy. The health system, the research dollars, you name it. The school has a huge impact, one that's growing with every single year given how its incubator programs are really bearing fruit. Just two weeks ago, an international pharma company announced a presence in Birmingham, with UAB being a key reason. That's what the University means to this city. Yeah, the kids go to Tuscaloosa, but the money flows to Birmingham.
Yet despite the vital importance of UAB to the region and its economic future, the Birmingham area is woefully underrepresented on the Board of Trustees. That means people who live in places such as Satsuma or Decatur or Anniston essentially get to have the deciding voice in Birmingham's economic destiny. And, to be sure, I think Huntsville is in the same boat.
What's more, there are sufficient reasons to think that UoA's BoT is making these moves because of poor past decision making. From what I understand, UAT is facing a looming financial crisis due to the fact that its rapid, unplanned expansion over the past ten years. So if the BoT is forcing UAB to cut back in order to make up for UAT's issues, then that is very unfair to the City of Birmingham.
And I never said you did. There was an idiotic post I was responding to that did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
This. What the boneheaded money guys don't understand is that a football team is integral to student life on a major college campus. Even MIT now fields a football team. This is why the large majority of college football programs are heavily subsidized by the colleges. Because it is essential to the school's overall brand, even when it simply cannot be quantified on a balance sheet. There's even an accounting term for it, goodwill, that deals with the intangibles that contribute to an organization's value. In that sense, even if UAB's program lost $2,000,000 last year before subsidies, that's chump change compared to the $2.5 billion in revenue the school took in.
The problem with the criticism leveled at UAB is that it comes from the perspective of Auburn, Alabama, and FSU, three enormous programs that bring in profit. Yet those programs are very much the exception as opposed to the rule in college football.
In truth, UAB has average support for programs in its conference and a decent coach would have likely grown the fan base. No amount of spin on the part of Watt's apologists can make that go away. That's why there has been such outcry over scrapping the program. It's not just about the football team. It's about the UAB brand.
UAB has enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship with the region over the past 40 years. As UAB has prospered, so has the city. So when the BoT decides to scrap one of the visible emblem of the University over a paltry couple of million -- especially when the program is showing signs of life -- it is really seen as an attack on the region itself by people who don't attend the games or even care about the sport at all.
Exactly. They want to ensure that all that goodwill and intangible cash flow goes to UA and Tuscaloosa and not in to UAB and Birmingham.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
I can't speak for Huntsville, but I sure can speak for Birmingham. The metro area of Birmingham represents one-fourth of the state's population, but accounts for one-third of the state's GDP. The fact that only one-seventh of the BoT resides in the Birmingham metro is idiotic. Yet another reason to remove the A from UAB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV
Not sure I understand your point.
The point is the UAB brand coincides with the "brand" of Birmingham. Having a strong UAB with a football team could also translate into more bright young minds coming to UAB as opposed to some other medical college. Having a better Birmingham with more attractions downtown for student life means more of this and more of that - more money more activity more more more. It is important for this BOT to not attack Birmingham, but help it because UAB and Birmingham are inseparable now and depend on one another. So cutting out football because they scared of creating a rival in their own backyard is silly and irresponsible because it is more important to help build the strongest economic engine this state has.
If they can see that, and won't embrace that then perhaps it is time to create Birmingham University - or whatever, to remove it from the grasp of the UA system. I don't think we will have to do that, or hope not- I think new legislation with equal representation on the board will take care of it.
I can't speak for Huntsville, but I sure can speak for Birmingham. The metro area of Birmingham represents one-fourth of the state's population, but accounts for one-third of the state's GDP. The fact that only one-seventh of the BoT resides in the Birmingham metro is idiotic. Yet another reason to remove the A from UAB.
A prominent Birmingham business and civic leader recently discussing the ebbs and tides of our metro economy described UAB as a rock. He said that of all the economic drivers in the metro it was the one that would never go away or be absorbed.
Two months later I believe he was wrong and I wish such people would make their voices heard. UAB is going nowhere, but Watts weakly did the BoT bidding in ending the football program this month.
Business leaders should certainly understand without the 'brand' of UAB as it relates to citizens that otherwise have no connection, this campus becomes just a huge collection of buildings that have little identity for those citizens. With a well branded sports program schools embrace their communities and engender the kind of support that makes the school a true member of the community.
The Blazer logo is on buses , streets, restaurants and even some of the buildings (like the new student center under construction) all across the south highlands. This logo is a constant reminder of this integral part of the city.
For many citizens and those who move here, UAB just lost its community identity. It will still be a major research and medical center, but that does not excite the average person, and possibly even some of the potential donors that UAB likes to court.
I think this decision is so bad that it is another embarrassment that we have people in Alabama that could come to this conslusion. I would really like to see UAB out of the UA system fast.
A prominent Birmingham business and civic leader recently discussing the ebbs and tides of our metro economy described UAB as a rock. He said that of all the economic drivers in the metro it was the one that would never go away or be absorbed.
The good thing about Universities as that they can wax and wane, but 99% of the time they don't just pick up and move or disappear. I'm not anti-private enterprise, but it can pick up and move at the drop of a hat and there's a reason a lot of post-industrial towns like Bham actively pursue the "eds and meds" as a stable economic driver.
"Having a strong UAB with a football team could also translate into more bright young minds coming to UAB as opposed to some other medical college." Bwaa Haaa Haww! With all of the reports of brain damage from concussions, and other related sports injuries that plague even the best football players (Dan Marino used to come to a theatre I supervised -when he felt up to it...) the idea of a serious medical student seeing a well-supported football team as a decision point in college choice makes as much sense as promoting a college aimed at eco-nuts with a crack hunting club as an enticement.
Football is a religion. The coaches at UAT are gods. Thou shalt have no other gods before me...
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