Is Birmingham this dangerous? (Mobile, Huntsville: live, law, legally)

[OldBankhead]

Maybe the city can use that money to get up to Huntsville's grade. Oh wait...

[canadian citizen]

Brimingham has the highest number of Police officers per one thousand people in the population, in the entire USA.

[Nemean]

Originally Posted by GreggT

Very good assessment but......
Don't you think the other urban areas with similar populations face the same issues that you brought up? Quite frankly I was surprised to see the big differences in crime rates from city to city. Maybe the "Powers that Be" in Birmingham might look to see what those other urban areas are doing differently to attack their crime issues.

The thing is that pretty much every big city is worse off now than it was before COVID. I can't really think of one that really reversed the trend.

Really, the only way I can see going forward is if the metro can set up a mood that the area doesn't quite match national trends. That, in ways, it really is a bit of an exception. Luckily, there's a lot left unsaid that can help point to that. Like I mentioned before, Bham was quite open before that involvement in the show "The First 48" was to help get locals more trusting of the local police. There really is more of a recent history of a willingness to be open about issues instead of hiding them for a better image. And it was working in the late 2000s and early 2010s. As I've mentioned elsewhere, one of the surprisingly more unique things about Birmingham is that pretty much everywhere has a spot worth visiting.

Mountain Brook has towns and adjacency to the zoo/gardens, so it isn't as unexpected to see "lower class" visiting the area. Similarly, Bessemer has Bright Star, a nationally recognized local institution of a restaurant. Normally I mention that as possible route to help a transit system despite the area's lower density, but it gives clout to recognizing that it's a real loss to "hide and ignore" the higher crime areas. So it's not just human decency and worrying about a crime image that can help drive wanting to get these areas get better. Fixing crime doesn't just open up new housing stock, but also tourism options. I have family in Atlanta, and while the facilities of the Crossplex were nice for a swim meet, they never want to go to that side of town again due to feeling unsafe in the area around it. Honestly, my dream for the Bham metro is a transit system that ties well with a local tourism system with payment more set in day pass style to get local people exploring the metro from the American Village to Rickwood Caverns, from Barber Motorsports to whatever name Alabama Adventure goes by now. However, that can't happen without addressing crime rates in the areas that most need that transit.

The different parts of the metro can bicker, but if there is an understanding that they ultimately all bring stuff to the table (not in that "suburbs have money"-"city has cultural amenities" way, but more that every area actually contributes in the stuff-to-do category that could be open to everyone. So not just a economic codependence but a real overlap in life experience as people visit the different local cultural institutions), then it could possibly turn around. If the understanding isn't that people want crime to go down for the image issues, but that's legitimate want to be able to interact both on the "other's" home turf but also on "yours" without worry.

[TimCity2000]

Originally Posted by canadian citizen

Brimingham has the highest number of Police officers per one thousand people in the population, in the entire USA.

not sure if this is true, but it does support the notion that more police aren't necessarily the answer to combat crime, and that maybe we should direct some resources elsewhere.

since y'all seem to be dwelling on murder... how often does a police officer prevent a murder? my money is on "rarely". murders are often in the heat of the moment, usually between people that know or know of each other, resulting from an argument, domestic dispute, gun/drug deal gone bad, etc. how do we adequately teach our young people conflict resolution skills? how do we convince them that wielding a gun does not make you a badass and is not the way to conduct yourself?

[slowlane3]

June 4th:
Rayshod Goldthwaite, 18, was found shot to death behind the wheel of a car that crashed into Dinkey's Auto Collision Center at 608 2nd Avenue North in Smithfield.

Well, at least he picked a convenient place for whoever inherited his crashed car to get it repaired.

[Nemean]

Originally Posted by TimCity2000

not sure if this is true, but it does support the notion that more police aren't necessarily the answer to combat crime, and that maybe we should direct some resources elsewhere.

since y'all seem to be dwelling on murder... how often does a police officer prevent a murder? my money is on "rarely". murders are often in the heat of the moment, usually between people that know or know of each other, resulting from an argument, domestic dispute, gun/drug deal gone bad, etc. how do we adequately teach our young people conflict resolution skills? how do we convince them that wielding a gun does not make you a badass and is not the way to conduct yourself?

Conflict resolution works, but it needs to be a led by example. To be frank, you'd have to have a plethora of local examples, because there's not really any on the national stage. Instead, there's active conflict aggravation rooted in actively taking the worst interpretation of opposing sides of the argument since everything seems to devolving to politics these days. Progressives come across as deeming everything they disagree with as regressive. Conservatives are more tuning out and viewing the left as a secular pseudo-academic cult that takes everything they believe as settled science that can't be questioned and disagreement is heresy. In terms of what can be done, I dunno. Require students that don't have jobs to do some community service to graduate? Having to suffer a retail or customer service job does a lot to help build up the ability to hold back when dealing with bull. It's hard to influence what's cool from a middle position. The best you can probably do is open up a range of who people interact with that could have an alternative view on what's cool.

I also wouldn't write off police. It's actually still part of the solution, but that aspect isn't solely the police as an individual unit. People take things into their own hands if they don't believe that justice can be achieved otherwise. That cynicism bleeds into those heat of the moment. Police are only as good at providing justice as the legal system behind it. If the police catch someone, but the district attorney doesn't take up the case, then it's all for naught as the criminal has no real consequences for his actions, free to inflict harm again on the innocent. Similarly, if the police and the state are jailing people under bunk changes, then it's similarly for naught as the innocent have suffered injustice. In reality, you want something between the "hard on crime" and the current "prison reform" ("" due to what is being called prison reform; prison reform is actively needed, but there's a lot of issues with the current interpretations). We want something that enables the Ashby Pate situation; where there is real bite to law enough to kick someone in the pants if need be, but wise enough to understand not every nail needs a sledge hammer.

[GreggT]

Originally Posted by canadian citizen

Brimingham has the highest number of Police officers per one thousand people in the population, in the entire USA.

Not close to being true, several cities are higher including New York, Chicago, DC, Philly, Baltimore, St. Louis, etc.

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

Here’s a solid heat map for providing just the data needed on no-go areas.

https://crimegrade.org/safest-places...gham-al-metro/

really consider a site with crime statistics without actual source references valid especially when it starts with "and your home is 300% safer with a home security system ".

Considering the population count in our zip code in OK and this site's informaiton - felony required to live here:>)

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by Nemean

The thing is that pretty much every big city is worse off now than it was before COVID. I can't really think of one that really reversed the trend.

Really, the only way I can see going forward is if the metro can set up a mood that the area doesn't quite match national trends. That, in ways, it really is a bit of an exception. Luckily, there's a lot left unsaid that can help point to that. Like I mentioned before, Bham was quite open before that involvement in the show "The First 48" was to help get locals more trusting of the local police. There really is more of a recent history of a willingness to be open about issues instead of hiding them for a better image. And it was working in the late 2000s and early 2010s. As I've mentioned elsewhere, one of the surprisingly more unique things about Birmingham is that pretty much everywhere has a spot worth visiting.

Mountain Brook has towns and adjacency to the zoo/gardens, so it isn't as unexpected to see "lower class" visiting the area. Similarly, Bessemer has Bright Star, a nationally recognized local institution of a restaurant. Normally I mention that as possible route to help a transit system despite the area's lower density, but it gives clout to recognizing that it's a real loss to "hide and ignore" the higher crime areas. So it's not just human decency and worrying about a crime image that can help drive wanting to get these areas get better. Fixing crime doesn't just open up new housing stock, but also tourism options. I have family in Atlanta, and while the facilities of the Crossplex were nice for a swim meet, they never want to go to that side of town again due to feeling unsafe in the area around it. Honestly, my dream for the Bham metro is a transit system that ties well with a local tourism system with payment more set in day pass style to get local people exploring the metro from the American Village to Rickwood Caverns, from Barber Motorsports to whatever name Alabama Adventure goes by now. However, that can't happen without addressing crime rates in the areas that most need that transit.

The different parts of the metro can bicker, but if there is an understanding that they ultimately all bring stuff to the table (not in that "suburbs have money"-"city has cultural amenities" way, but more that every area actually contributes in the stuff-to-do category that could be open to everyone. So not just a economic codependence but a real overlap in life experience as people visit the different local cultural institutions), then it could possibly turn around. If the understanding isn't that people want crime to go down for the image issues, but that's legitimate want to be able to interact both on the "other's" home turf but also on "yours" without worry.

Not all big cities have higher crime. Miami is lower crime post Covid.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ly-15/2659716/

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

Not all big cities have higher crime. Miami is lower crime post Covid.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ly-15/2659716/

All those retirees went to the Great Shuffleboard Court in the sky.