Is Birmingham this dangerous? (Huntsville, Gardendale: violent crime, bus, gangs)

[Mississippi Alabama Line]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

Not all big cities have higher crime. Miami is lower crime post Covid.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ly-15/2659716/

One city, and that's just murder rate. And the article also says that multiple LEO were involved in an intentional cleanup of the streets. Well, we certainly know that that was NOT the case in many American cities where LEO was vilified.

I think it's a fairly accurate statement to say crime is higher everywhere post-COVID, and it's because we are largely taking away all the deterrents to it.

That said, like a previous article said, you can still walk around outside. And if you choose, you can still carry a gun.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

An article in a different thread said Birmingham would only have 8 murders this year for the current population if it was the same as San Paulo’s (Brazil) murder rate. As everyone knows, there have been over 125 so far in 2022.

https://www.bhamwiki.com/w/List_of_B...icides_in_2022

For a medium to large city, that seems rather high. Huntsville is larger yet has numbers in the 20’s the last few years. Is Birmingham turning the corner on homicides?

Here is the mentioned thread: https://www.city-data.com/forum/poli...cide-rate.html

Yes, Birmingham is that violent. Birmingham has always been this way.

Article about this: https://www.al.com/news/2022/11/its-...irmingham.html

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Yes, Birmingham is that violent. Birmingham has always been this way.

Article about this: https://www.al.com/news/2022/11/its-...irmingham.html

Statewide in 2020, there were 258 murders, total, in the state. Jefferson county had 125 of those murders. Practically half of all murders in the entire state of Alabama, were in Birmingham or the greater metro area of Birmingham.

https://crime.alabama.gov/Data/LocalCrime

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

Statewide in 2020, there were 258 murders, total, in the state. Jefferson county had 125 of those murders. Practically half of all murders in the entire state of Alabama, were in Birmingham or the greater metro area of Birmingham.

https://crime.alabama.gov/Data/LocalCrime

I checked the link. That is for 2019. And statewide, Alabama had 430 murders. In 2020, Alabama had 471 murders. Birmingham proper by itself had 122 murders. This year Birmingham has recorded at least 141 murders. Birmingham has about 197,000 people. This means a murder rate around 75 per 100,000.

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I checked the link. That is for 2019. And statewide, Alabama had 430 murders. In 2020, Alabama had 471 murders. Birmingham proper by itself had 122 murders. This year Birmingham has recorded at least 141 murders. Birmingham has about 197,000 people. This means a murder rate around 75 per 100,000.

If the 2020 murder totals doubled for the state from 2019 to 2020, that’s surprising.

On the surface, Birmingham may appear to be a war zone but there is more to the picture:
The per capita is skewed. As others have pointed out, the actual city of Birmingham is small but it’s basically a “metro area” as is Mobile, Huntsville, etc. For more accurate comparisons, a review of the county’s totals, both in murders and total population would be more accurate. Like any city, there are no-go areas for safety,

The exception to this would be if the murders literally all occurred (only) in the same area as the small(ish) 200,000 population.

Either way, the state should be pouring in resources to improve the murder rate. Not handing out money but actual resources and if the city “doesn’t participate “, go on a communication blitz, where there are options on how to warn, notify, and protect the citizens of Birmingham.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

If the 2020 murder totals doubled for the state from 2019 to 2020, that’s surprising.

On the surface, Birmingham may appear to be a war zone but there is more to the picture:
The per capita is skewed. As others have pointed out, the actual city of Birmingham is small but it’s basically a “metro area” as is Mobile, Huntsville, etc. For more accurate comparisons, a review of the county’s totals, both in murders and total population would be more accurate. Like any city, there are no-go areas for safety,

The exception to this would be if the murders literally all occurred (only) in the same area as the small(ish) 200,000 population.

Either way, the state should be pouring in resources to improve the murder rate. Not handing out money but actual resources and if the city “doesn’t participate “, go on a communication blitz, where there are options on how to warn, notify, and protect the citizens of Birmingham.

They didn't double. Alabama, statewide, had 430 murders in 2019. I checked the data in that link.

As for Birmingham's murder rate, I'm talking explicitly about Birmingham city limits, and only Birmingham city limits. If one gets murdered in Birmingham, it only counts for Birmingham.

Per capita might seem skewed. However, it's the best measure of murder rates that we have. Birmingham by itself are what alot of people refer to. People aren't referring to Hoover, Vestavia Hills, or Leeds. It's Birmingham city limits, and only Birmingham city limits people think of and refer too. Birmingham city limits has a very high murder rate.

Birmingham city limits has been dealing with a high murder rate for years. And this isn't anything new. This goes back to the early 20th century. Birmingham finished off 2022 with 141. Birmingham recorded 148 murders in 1933 (when the population was 259,000). Birmingham had a murder rate of 57.1 murders per 100,000. 2022 finished with 75 per 100,000.

This is what I think has historically taking place. Alot of homicides in Birmingham were Black men murdering other Black men. In the Jim Crow era, few cared if Black people murdered each other. It was ignored back then. And it's normalized today. Drugs, the subculture of violence via "honor culture", vices, this was a big part of the homicide problem.

[TimCity2000]

Again, I think it's important to distinguish who Birmingham is dangerous for.

Visitors? Tourists? Law-abiding citizens like me who live and work in the city? Not particularly.

People (especially young people) doing something they shouldn't be doing and/or associating with people who can't resolve conflicts peacefully? Absolutely.


Birmingham definitely has a murder rate problem, and it needs to be dealt with, but unfortunately the fixation on this one statistic paints the city, as mentioned above, as some war zone. For what it's worth, I've been here 20 years now and have never once felt unsafe. The perception of crime and education are the city's biggest obstacles, in my opinion.

[BOORGONG]

Originally Posted by TimCity2000

Again, I think it's important to distinguish who Birmingham is dangerous for.

Visitors? Tourists? Law-abiding citizens like me who live and work in the city? Not particularly.

People (especially young people) doing something they shouldn't be doing and/or associating with people who can't resolve conflicts peacefully? Absolutely.


Birmingham definitely has a murder rate problem, and it needs to be dealt with, but unfortunately the fixation on this one statistic paints the city, as mentioned above, as some war zone. For what it's worth, I've been here 20 years now and have never once felt unsafe. The perception of crime and education are the city's biggest obstacles, in my opinion.

Dang statistics get in the way of rosy perception.

Why would anyone get fixated on the murder rate when concealed open carry is at your doorstep, and is bound to solve that problem in time?

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by BOORGONG

Dang statistics get in the way of rosy perception.

Why would anyone get fixated on the murder rate when concealed open carry is at your doorstep, and is bound to solve that problem in time?

Grammatically, it’s concealed carry or open carry. Concealed open carry is ?!?

Alabama legislators recognized that bad guys don’t seek compliance with any laws, let alone gun laws. This law was signed back in July but to little fanfare. But the good news is that up north, all firearms are banned (in Montreal) so no need to worry about what, when or even how to carry.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...nada-1.4792398

[BOORGONG]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

Grammatically, it’s concealed carry or open carry. Concealed open carry is ?!?

Alabama legislators recognized that bad guys don’t seek compliance with any laws, let alone gun laws. This law was signed back in July but to little fanfare. But the good news is that up north, all firearms are banned (in Montreal) so no need to worry about what, when or even how to carry.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...nada-1.4792398

Yes, concealed slash open carry, my mistake.

Montreal's homicide count stands at 41 on New Year's eve, and for a population of 2,1 million. It's safe to say people here want to lower the death toll, and make it more difficult for the regular joes to make awful mistakes and turn into bad guys, as often happens.

That more guns come in illegally from the states is an obvious outcome, as it already is a problem, however, this results in aggravated circumstances and additional charges for the perpetrators.