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It's really deeper than that. I don't like pseudo-intellectuals asking idiotic questions like "What's the intellectual presence in Boise" like they would be doing Boise a favor by leaving the Utopia of North Carolina and heading Northwest. If he had asked, "what's the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow" I would have had more respect. At least I would know he has a sense of humor.
Your defensiveness speaks much louder than your words.
Yeah, I'm not going to bother with the rest of his responses. It will just devolve into a silly back and forth about what "intellectualism" really is or is not, and if it's even valued. It's simply a part of the culture wars, a sentiment that is very alive here in Idaho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC_Paddler
Boise sounds like the RDU of Idaho (but with better kayaking).
Arguably better kayaking. Boaters I know here that are from the eastern US almost to a person prefer the boating back there. Most of them don't like the higher volume rivers, the bigger holes and features, and they like the more technical, creeky type rivers in the east. I think they're just scared.
Arguably better kayaking. Boaters I know here that are from the eastern US almost to a person prefer the boating back there. Most of them don't like the higher volume rivers, the bigger holes and features, and they like the more technical, creeky type rivers in the east. I think they're just scared.
I have never paddled out west, so I have no frame of reference . . . but I've seen some footage, and yes, some of that high-volume stuff with massive, munchy holes is downright scary!
Your defensiveness speaks much louder than your words.
Think what you want. But please do not move to this backwards, intellectual hating city. VandalsLOL is right. There is better paddling in NC, not to mention all those intellectuals.
Clearly the state of Idaho does not much value education, since they are dead last in education spending per pupil.
That's the thing that I think several are trying to point out, it's not *clear* at all. And assumptions that Idaho's citizens don't value education due to their education spending is not only a pretty big generalization, but not intellectually astute.
Define "education spending per pupil". Are you referring to total expenditures for a district within a State, or the entire State itself? Are you referring to the amount spent on pupil support alone within those districts and States, or spending that includes wages, et cetera? There can be a very big difference between these figures. Comparisons between States is not really valid without much more data.
Is Boise a fairly intellectual city? By "intellectual", I not only mean formally educated, although that is part of the equation, but I'm referring more generally to rational, scientifically-minded people who tend to be independent, forward-thinking critical thinkers, rather than followers and TV junkies and super-religious. I suspect Boise is like many mid-sized cities with universities, but I also know that Idaho overall is a very conservative state which, to be perfectly honest, tends to coincide with anti-intellectualism (religious fundamentalism, racism, homophobia,and such).
Thanks in advance.
Nah. I lived in Boise for a couple years. Used to play with the Hawks for a couple seasons, back when they were the Cubs' AA affiliate. I mean, for Idaho it might be sort of progressive--Ada county is a blue county in a very Red state. And it IS the state Capitol. And it IS a University town. Lots of Californians have invaded in over the past 20 years. But one thing: it's also a very Religious town: lots of Mormons and Catholics. In fact I think I once read where, per capita, Boise has almost as many LDSers as Provo or SLC.
So in my book this sort of off-sets any ideas that its a smart or progressive town. Since religion, to me, is no better than superstition. Ada county also has a pretty bad meth problem. At least it did when I played there. Lots of tweakers. A good dose of rednecks. Illegals Mexicans.
Don't get me wrong, not a bad place overall. probably the best place to live in Idaho, but don;t make the mistake of escalating Boise to the intellectual level of a Boston or San Francisco or even a Seattle or a New York or a Chapel Hill. I don't know that I'd even rate it higher intellectually than Prescott, AZ, where I currently reside. On the progressive level, it might be a big fish in a a little pond (comparing it to the rest of Idaho)-- but that's as far as I could go.
That's the thing that I think several are trying to point out, it's not *clear* at all. And assumptions that Idaho's citizens don't value education due to their education spending is not only a pretty big generalization, but not intellectually astute.
Define "education spending per pupil". Are you referring to total expenditures for a district within a State, or the entire State itself? Are you referring to the amount spent on pupil support alone within those districts and States, or spending that includes wages, et cetera? There can be a very big difference between these figures. Comparisons between States is not really valid without much more data.
The thing is... it is actually quite clear. If you want to speak to a number of teachers, professors, and administrators in Idaho who are working on this issue, I can gladly refer you. I know them well.
The stats actually back up these "assumptions."
While we do "okay" in producing high school graduates, Idaho has a problem educating its students to even remedial college standards. The AP and standardized testing scores are among the nation's lowest, for instance. There are a lot of reasons why Idaho students perform so poorly, but spending per pupil and rural education are two of the primary reasons. I'd add attitude toward education as another.
For more info, look into Albertson's "Go On" campaign.
Now, if you want to make the argument that you can't equate "intellectualism" with simply having a college education, then fair enough (although no one is saying they are directly correlated, for the record). But education is an indicator of intelligence, and at the very least, contributes to it. Moreover, educational achievement is an indicator of how a state values intellectual pursuits.
Outside of useless anecdotal evidence, or finding some isolated "intelligence quotient scores per state," what we're left with is the vast realm of educational data, even given the caveat that education =/= intelligence directly.
The education = intellect debate is a tough one. I mean, I've been passed up on jobs numerous times and end up working for folks with degrees. They're completely inept and I end up doing the work while being paid less. In some cases they are very intellectual, but lack common sense. They can tell you about the War of 1812, yet lack problem solving skills. In other cases I know folks that went to good schools, somehow got high marks but aren't particularly informative or intellectual on any subject. Frankly, they're "dumb." I've been told by a couple professor friends that the main goal is to pass as many as possible (aka lowered expectations). Our current system is pretty much a scam IMO. The banks are the winners here.
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