Melville-Park in Dorchester: What's the latest? (Boston, Cambridge: sales, real estate market, 2014)

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Hi there - I know the safety of the Melville Park neighborhood has been debated on these forums before, although I couldn't find anything recent. I'm wondering if any residents of the immediate neighborhood could comment?

My wife and I are looking at buying beautiful Victorian home in the neighborhood to raise 1-2 kids if we're so lucky. The price is right and it's basically in move in condition. We've been to the neighborhood a bunch of times (via the Shawmut T station) and haven't felt the least bit unwelcome or unsafe.

I'm concerned, however, by what some posters have said on this forum - that it's an "oasis" amid some unsafe and potentially violent areas.

We're young professionals who don't mind a degree of grit and have lived in Central Square Cambridge for over 10 years, so we've seen some crime and some unseemly types. And we know not to walk alone at 2 a.m. with earbuds in, etc etc.

BUT, we're just curious what you think of the neighborhood in 2014…So, whatdya say folks? Any experiences or anecdotes you can relay?

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I should add the home in question is on Park St at the edge of Wellesley Park, if that helps.

[MassNative2891]

Park St. near Wellesley Park would be close to the intersection of Dot Ave and Geneva. Off and around Geneva, you would be in a pretty "Unsafe" part of Boston.

To put it simple, Geneva is amongst the most notorious strips in Boston.

That being said, unless you're involved in certain practices; you'll be all set.

It's a great location geographically in the city, and has great T access.

Not to mention, you'll probably never get the same price for that house ever again. The housing prices around Boston are ticking up everyday.

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Originally Posted by MassNative2891

Park St. near Wellesley Park would be close to the intersection of Dot Ave and Geneva. Off and around Geneva, you would be in a pretty "Unsafe" part of Boston.

To put it simple, Geneva is amongst the most notorious strips in Boston.

That being said, unless you're involved in certain practices; you'll be all set.

It's a great location geographically in the city, and has great T access.

Not to mention, you'll probably never get the same price for that house ever again. The housing prices around Boston are ticking up everyday.

Thanks, MassNative. Very helpful. Your last point is an interesting one…do you think this applies to the Melville Park neighborhood as well, or does the proximity to "notorious" Geneva Ave make it less desirable? I see a range of perspectives about the degree to which Dorchester is or is not "immune" to gentrification in the classic sense of the word.

[MassNative2891]

This area is not comparable to Central in Cambridge though. Real "Hood" stuff happens around Geneva. Sounds of gunshots, ambulances and police cars roaring are not uncommon; especially near where you specified.

Not as frequent as other parts of Rox and Dot but still much more than Cambridge or Somerville. To be honest, you'd do well for yourself to visit the area and gauge your comfort level.

[MassNative2891]

Originally Posted by turns to grey

Thanks, MassNative. Very helpful. Your last point is an interesting one…do you think this applies to the Melville Park neighborhood as well, or does the proximity to "notorious" Geneva Ave make it less desirable? I see a range of perspectives about the degree to which Dorchester is or is not "immune" to gentrification in the classic sense of the word.

It's a complex thing. Dot is the largest neighborhood of Boston. The closer you are to BHA, Geneva, or Talbot; the more immune that section of Dot will be to gentrification.

Melville Park has always been a sea of tranquility though. The problems within the surrounding disenfranchised community is a concern though. Can it affect the housing value? For sure, the area is beautiful but still somewhat affordable while being within the city and close to two T stops. I'll say it again though, the neighborhood encircling Melville Park is rougher around the edges than any part of Cambridge.

That being said, the city and developers would LOVE to change this neighborhood for the better. Fields Corner which is within the vicinity is a great example.

Growing up in the 90s and early 00s, Fields Corner was notorious. Then around '05 it was known as a Vietnamese enclave and trending updwards. That has not stopped the adjacent Bowdoin/Geneva from still being crime ridden and Fields Corner slowly taking steps back.

The investment in the home will pay off eventually, you just have to be in it for the long haul. The area is prone to ups and downs. Working families that can, tend to leave once they have the means to. Especially if they are minorities with children. It's difficult to raise children around there, that's for sure.

I personally have a family friend who sent his children to GA after he moved to the area (used to live in Stoughton). He knew he could deal with the day to day, but his kids might get caught up.

[goyguy]

In terms of stability relative to other sections of Dorchester, Melville Park has held up really well. However, the Park St end of it is the most vulnerable to change (for better or worse.) My take on that immediate area is that it's in a holding pattern of sorts but with a long-term prognosis leaning toward the positive. The "trouble spots" and good/bad boundaries have stayed consistent:
1. Fields Corner Station during the after-school hours, and late at night
2. The strip mall perpendicular to Dorchester Ave just south of the station
3. Geneva Ave west of Tonawanda and Charles St's, new "acorn" street lamps notwithstanding
4. Town Field (in all fairness, any large open recreational area anywhere can draw "unsavory" activity)
As a very longtime Central Square resident - who also dwelled in Mission Hill for several years before it was cool - I consider myself a "city kid" with sensibilities to match. With that having been said - I'd not be keen on going to or from Shawmut Station at pretty much any time other than rush hours. Clementine Park in front is a nice street, but it's that walkway headed north which gives pause. Even way back when it was built it was probably a mugger magnet. With Dot Ave as close by as it is, though, it's easily enough avoided. OTOH I've used Fields Corner en route to visit people over the years - during "safer" periods - and haven't had any issues whatsoever.
The principal drawback to Melville Park isn't so much crime or fear thereof, in my eyes. It's the needing to have a car in order to shop for groceries and 'most anything else.

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Originally Posted by goyguy

In terms of stability relative to other sections of Dorchester, Melville Park has held up really well. However, the Park St end of it is the most vulnerable to change (for better or worse.) My take on that immediate area is that it's in a holding pattern of sorts but with a long-term prognosis leaning toward the positive. The "trouble spots" and good/bad boundaries have stayed consistent:
1. Fields Corner Station during the after-school hours, and late at night
2. The strip mall perpendicular to Dorchester Ave just south of the station
3. Geneva Ave west of Tonawanda and Charles St's, new "acorn" street lamps notwithstanding
4. Town Field (in all fairness, any large open recreational area anywhere can draw "unsavory" activity)
As a very longtime Central Square resident - who also dwelled in Mission Hill for several years before it was cool - I consider myself a "city kid" with sensibilities to match. With that having been said - I'd not be keen on going to or from Shawmut Station at pretty much any time other than rush hours. Clementine Park in front is a nice street, but it's that walkway headed north which gives pause. Even way back when it was built it was probably a mugger magnet. With Dot Ave as close by as it is, though, it's easily enough avoided. OTOH I've used Fields Corner en route to visit people over the years - during "safer" periods - and haven't had any issues whatsoever.
The principal drawback to Melville Park isn't so much crime or fear thereof, in my eyes. It's the needing to have a car in order to shop for groceries and 'most anything else.

Thanks MassNative and GoyGuy! Very helpful indeed.

GoyGuy, I wish I could say I'm surprised about your comment re the Shawmut walkway. We have always been during the day, on a sunny Saturday, to attend an open house. It looks like how I think every T station should look ... Beautiful restoration, cool vintage signage, etc. But I confess to having some reservations about how it would feel after dark given that I hardly would say the area is bustling even at rush hour. The MBTA crime stats don't seem terrible but the year is relatively young.

The challenge we are having I think is that the real estate market seems to reflect a new dawn for Melville Park with fast sales and lots of $$ over asking. This said, it still feels like the perimeter good/bad spots haven't really caught up to that. So our concern is a bit about safety but more about the long term plans to improve the neighborhood. For example, with a sketchy T station, rough/limited shopping and restaurant options, etc ... It feels like much still needs to be done to move the perimeter areas further along. Would you tend to agree?

[goyguy]

In a word, yes.
Right now we're in a hot seller's market, with demand exceeding supply, so quick housing turnover shouldn't be used as a barometer to judge how well a neighborhood's doing. "Over two hundred" people walked through a 3-decka condo unit on my block earlier this month. The gleeful owners had to sift through offers over the asking price, which in turn represented a $50k increase over their purchase price in 2005. Of course we're talking about a "happening" community where ads trumpet the street address rather than leave out that detail. But the same reality holds true throughout the Boston area. The Globe and Boston Magazine have even featured articles about not how to be prepared to pay the list price for a property, but how to prepare for bidding wars.
Dorchester is an urban-studies work in continual progress, a source of fascination for armchair sociologists. I think the challenge for Melville Park (and I'm sure there's no lack of community associations or block clubs) is to steer some retail/dining investment dollars its way. Ashmont and Savin Hill are percolating, with new dining spots taking their place amidst sketchy bars and dubiously health-code abiding ethnic grocery stores. Dot Ave in between has stayed largely "immune" to that. Yes, there's no lack of places to get one's nails done or to grab some quick take-out. And...? My thought is that Morrissey Blvd is just too close for chain stores to want to open another location no more than a mile to the west, since the two would cancel each other out in terms of revenue.
You also have to work around perception. Folks regularly tell of having friends out-and-out refuse to "go to Dorchester" to visit them - categorically. TV and the newspapers all too often blare headlines about something bad happening there. Never mind the number of square miles that are involved. City people scratch their heads over this paranoid mentality, but it's present in a major way. And would-be investors are mindful of that.
With the way things are now, the house in question may well be snapped up while your deliberations go on. I think that risk is worth taking, though. Search online for community organizations, find out who the go-to people are, and communicate your questions and concerns to them. Also take some more strolls in the vicinity, but this time after dark, and also visit during the daytime when neighbors will be outside and you can chat them up.

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Thanks, goyguy. Much appreciated.