Religion in Boston (camp, living, association)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Still generally drops, however.

For example, foreign born Latinos are 69% affiliated, second gen is 59%, and third gen is 40%.

It also depends on "which" Latinos. Don't assume that we will be always getting the same groups in same numbers as we have in the past. Just as affiliation is super low now among the Irish who have been here forever, it seems that each new wave of immigrants arriving gives it a little bump.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by massnative71

My guess is that the final numbers will continue to drop, but by not as much as suggested when going solely by trends of those "currently" living in the city.

Actually Boston and MA overall are very similar to each other.

29% of Bostonian considered themselves catholics while 34% of people in the state overall did the same. But the difference was with other faiths (less mainline protestant in the state overall vs Boston). Unaffiliated of any kind were 32% in the city and 33% in the state overall.

I don't know if I am surprised, MA is pretty much 2/3 Boston metro, which is pretty similar to the city itself culturally. The rest of MA may be different, but we are not that important overall.

Speaking for the city alone, yeah. I think a huge impact is going to come from who is going to live in the city 10 or 20 years from now. With the current housing market I have no idea. The city may just become even more made up of poor + young renters.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by id77

I'd challenge this for data.

Most of the "unaffiliated" in Boston I know are either agnostic with no particular religion or straight-up atheist. The agnostics are split among people who are true agnostics, people who are something that traditional religion rails on (ie, LGBTQ) so they stay agnostic, or closet atheists who just don't realize they're really atheist.

The non-practicing Catholics I know will still say they're Catholic.

I think the data will vary depending on the source. I'd personally fall under Catholic or "Unaffiliated/Agnostic" depending on how the data is collected. If you're collecting from institutions, I'd fall under Catholic as I was baptized in Washington DC and Confirmed by the Diocese of Fall River. I still occasionally attend church on Easter with family (all "cultural Catholics" who aren't spiritual or religious at all, but enjoy the community and some of the tradition), for some weddings, and for some funerals. But if a pollster or survey asked me directly, I'd say I'm agnostic. If pushed hard enough, I could probably even be grouped as an atheist.

I also know many non-practicing Catholics that identify as Catholic. Many of them could also be agnostic if it weren't for some reluctance or fear of labeling themselves with the word (especially if the senior members of the family are practicing Catholics).

[massnative71]

It's also important to remember that not attending church or practicing all the rituals, does not necessarily mean one is agnostic or atheist. Plenty of people who are affiliated, only show up on Christmas, Easter, weddings and funerals, yet are still full believers even though the church might consider them in violation.

[Lampert]

Polls are much better than checking if you are baptized to know what you think about religion.
Checking if you are baptized is done just if you want to show a higher number of catholics than there actually is. Is the equivalent of asking your parents the moment you were born if you like sushi and then use those data to determine if 30 years-old-you likes sushi.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It's also important to remember that not attending church or practicing all the rituals, does not necessarily mean one is agnostic or atheist. Plenty of people who are affiliated, only show up on Christmas, Easter, weddings and funerals, yet are still full believers even though the church might consider them in violation.

Yes. There are also "nones" that believe in some sort of spiritualty or god. In fact is almost half of them.
And according to the study I posted earlier only half of catholics believe in god with absolute certainty while 15% of catholics either don't believe in god at all, don't know or are not certain. Only 17% believe with certainty that the holy scripture is the word of god while 41% don't believe it's the word of god.

The interpretation of the question it's crucial. I personally have a hard time understanding how you can be a catholic and not believe in god but maybe some people think, I am baptized then I am catholic, though in practice I am actually atheist.

[CARas2020]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I think the data will vary depending on the source. I'd personally fall under Catholic or "Unaffiliated/Agnostic" depending on how the data is collected. If you're collecting from institutions, I'd fall under Catholic as I was baptized in Washington DC and Confirmed by the Diocese of Fall River. I still occasionally attend church on Easter with family (all "cultural Catholics" who aren't spiritual or religious at all, but enjoy the community and some of the tradition), for some weddings, and for some funerals. But if a pollster or survey asked me directly, I'd say I'm agnostic. If pushed hard enough, I could probably even be grouped as an atheist.

I also know many non-practicing Catholics that identify as Catholic. Many of them could also be agnostic if it weren't for some reluctance or fear of labeling themselves with the word (especially if the senior members of the family are practicing Catholics).

I think I fall into this category. I don't consider myself Catholic or any other affiliation but I have been to church a few times in the past few years and the rituals come back. Like first thing when I walked in, finger in the holy water and sign of the cross. I took a religion class at Penn State and we talked about how many people attend any given church for the feeling of community.

I think I am mostly agnostic than atheist but sometimes I feel like there is just nothing there as far as any higher power.


This is a very interesting thread.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It's also important to remember that not attending church or practicing all the rituals, does not necessarily mean one is agnostic or atheist. Plenty of people who are affiliated, only show up on Christmas, Easter, weddings and funerals, yet are still full believers even though the church might consider them in violation.

That's why I have a hard time putting any stock in the "unaffiliated" data point. It's a catchall for people who range from full believers who may not be a part of a specific denomination for any number of reasons to agnostic and atheists who are reluctant to openly apply the labels for any number of reasons. It doesn't tell you much at all.

Originally Posted by CARas2020

I think I fall into this category. I don't consider myself Catholic or any other affiliation but I have been to church a few times in the past few years and the rituals come back. Like first thing when I walked in, finger in the holy water and sign of the cross. I took a religion class at Penn State and we talked about how many people attend any given church for the feeling of community.

I think I am mostly agnostic than atheist but sometimes I feel like there is just nothing there as far as any higher power.

Same here. It's only been the past couple of years that I stopped going through all of the motions whenever I found myself at mass. I'm largely agnostic in that I don't think it's possible for humans to know for certain about the existence of a higher power, but I definitely skew towards unlikely. But I'm much more skeptical of the likelihood that any singular religion has it "right."

I really don't know anyone here in the 25-40 age bracket that's particularly religious. Many of my friends and family members are believers, but very few are actively practicing a particular religion. Fewer attend any sort of church for more than special occasions. On the other hand, I have 2 close friends who describe themselves as "Catholic," but if you heard them talk about higher powers and religion you'd be shocked they aren't atheists or at least agnostic. I believe a lot of it has to due with being the children of deeply devout Catholics (parents who came over from the Azores). Though in my neighborhood specifically, Catholics are going strong thanks to the large percentage of foreign-born Central and South American residents. Churches are active and full many days per week.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by lrfox

That's why I have a hard time putting any stock in the "unaffiliated" data point.

These data are usually broken down. Atheists and agnostics are not increasing very much, what's really incising a lot are people that don't recognize themselves in any organized religion. Many of these are spiritual.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by Lampert

These data are usually broken down. Atheists and agnostics are not increasing very much, what's really incising a lot are people that don't recognize themselves in any organized religion. Many of these are spiritual.

I'm not so sure about the bold. I know the categories are generally broken down further (with separate Atheists and agnostic categories), but the only way they end up in an atheist/agnostic category in a poll like this is if they come right out and say that they belong in one of those camps (and many are reluctant to admit it). I think many people who are actually agnostic (or even atheist) are in the "unaffiliated" camp right alongside the people who are spiritual/don't recognize themselves in any particular religion (I'd have been in this group well into my 20s even though I was very much an agnostic in reality at the time). I know atheists are often compared to vegans and people who do Crossfit as groups of people who don't shut about about what they believe/eat/do, but the reality is that there's a big contingent of agnostics and non-believers that are reluctant to admit as much for fear of not being accepted in their community, by family, friends, etc. These people are usually in the "unaffiliated" catchall, even if there's an agnostic or atheist category.

It's hard to quantify, but I'd wager the agnostic camp is far larger than any poll data captures simply because a large contingent of agnostics are reluctant to identify as such. Same is true of atheists, but to a lesser degree.