City Council proposal calls for hiring of Boston residents as flaggers at construction sites (safety, rapes)

[msRB311]

I just think it’s interesting that people think this will be desirable work for anyone. Being a garbage man seems more desirable to me. I couldn’t stand there doing nothing

[bostongymjunkie]

I can't imagine people would want to do it over the long haul and that means huge turnover $$$. Why do that when you can walk around the Pru as a security officer making the same or more.

[msRB311]

I truly think anyone who is pushing for this is just of the f*ck the police mindset. Are people in Boston that desperate for work that this needs to happen. I dont think so.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I truly think anyone who is pushing for this is just of the f*ck the police mindset. Are people in Boston that desperate for work that this needs to happen. I dont think so.

No doubt in my mind. The ones who are most vocal about it are the ones who consistently show a personal animosity toward law enforcement and some of their arguments are inconsistent with positions on similar issues not involving police.

[msRB311]

Seems like a wasted effort that isn't going to save any money and will only produce more work in the end.

[id77]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

Studies about the feelings of people can make for interesting reading on a sunny day at the beach. Otherwise, they are not really relevant here. Although when you speak with law-abiding people in some of the poorest urban neighborhoods around the country, they most certainly feel safer with more police there. You won't hear far left "Activists" saying this because they live in high-end real east in neighborhoods and towns that are well protected by police. That's not the topic at hand.

As I said, it will be difficult to retain flaggers at 15 per hour. When you approach 20's (with benefits) you are getting into detail rates. Add to this the fact that the state requires certification to do this job which involves a prescribed course of training. This costs money and if you're dealing with a revolving door of employees you're spending significant sums of money with recruitment, potential overtime, and training. I'd rather look at reducing costs of using police. Limiting it to only patrol officers would be just one way. No reason why superior officers need to be included if it means a higher rate. There are other ways that could be looked at as well but would require contract renegotiation.

Around the country isn't Boston, and Boston is what matters in this context. We're not using police from Acton or Randolph or Colorado for flagman detail in Boston, we're using police from Boston. It only matters how much confidence and trust BPD has instilled in the local community. We could go on all week about exactly how much confidence and trust poor urban neighborhoods around the nation have in their police, but at the end of the day this issue only relates to Boston so it's the one police force that matters here.

$20-30 (which is where I'd see this type of work falling in Boston) isn't $15, and it's a far cry from police detail pay which is around $50. If police were willing to do flagman work for $20-30/hour, it'd be a different discussion. I wouldn't expect Amazon to pay software engineer money for delivery driver work regardless of whether or not a software engineer is doing the deliveries, so why would this be any different?

[msRB311]

That's great if you think that's what flagmen should be paid but you have no idea if anyone would be willing to do it. Has it been proposed to the police union to work these details for $20-$30 an hour? They've had cuts as far as court time went and it doesn't seem like anything blew up over that.

It doesn't seem like people want to decrease the pay for the cops with these details, they simply want to move the work to a group of civilians.

[GeePee]

With all of the construction that is in constant flux in Boston, relieving those officers of these pointless tasks can have them focus on what they actually get paid for, and for less money. Sounds like a win win

[id77]

Originally Posted by msRB311

That's great if you think that's what flagmen should be paid but you have no idea if anyone would be willing to do it. Has it been proposed to the police union to work these details for $20-$30 an hour? They've had cuts as far as court time went and it doesn't seem like anything blew up over that.

It doesn't seem like people want to decrease the pay for the cops with these details, they simply want to move the work to a group of civilians.

There's likely people willing to do it. There are worse jobs for worse pay that people have said yes to before, so it stands to reason someone will weigh this work versus being unemployed and choose this as well.

There comes a point where if the pay gets too high the only reason anyone would pay for such a job is because they're forced to by law or regulation, and if that indeed becomes the case it will be lobbied to be changed by interested parties. That's exactly what's happening with this proposal.

With this proposal, there's technically nothing I see stopping a police officer from doing the work if they want to, just like anyone else who moonlights or takes a second job.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by id77

Around the country isn't Boston, and Boston is what matters in this context. We're not using police from Acton or Randolph or Colorado for flagman detail in Boston, we're using police from Boston. It only matters how much confidence and trust BPD has instilled in the local community. We could go on all week about exactly how much confidence and trust poor urban neighborhoods around the nation have in their police, but at the end of the day this issue only relates to Boston so it's the one police force that matters here.

$20-30 (which is where I'd see this type of work falling in Boston) isn't $15, and it's a far cry from police detail pay which is around $50. If police were willing to do flagman work for $20-30/hour, it'd be a different discussion. I wouldn't expect Amazon to pay software engineer money for delivery driver work regardless of whether or not a software engineer is doing the deliveries, so why would this be any different?

In terms of increased attention to safe driving around constructions sites and the response to incidents by detail officers those benefits are seen in Boston as they are around the state. I would also recommend you get to know some law abiding regular folk in the poor neighborhoods of THIS city because I can tell you that many, if not most, do have confidence in Boston Police and want them in the neighborhoods. When you take your cues from your own personality animosities toward law enforcement and add some divisive far-left anti-police rhetoric put forth by politically motivated people most of whom have no dog in the fight, you don't see that.

If you pay a flag person $30 hour plus benefits you are encroaching quite rapidly on what it costs to hire a police detail due to the costs of those benefits as well as the training.The less on the scale you go the more you end up paying in turnover costs and overtime. Your comparisons to private sector services are a non starter. We don't, as a matter of good practice, measure basic public services and public safety against organizations designed for profit.