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Old 10-16-2021, 05:14 PM
 
154 posts, read 74,718 times
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Buddhists of all sects always discuss in great detail enlightenment, karma, rebirth, etc. However, there seems not to be any discussion at all about ascertaining objective criteria and empirical evidence as to what constitutes an enlightened person so that the rest of the world isn't misled or deceived. Similarly, Pure Land Buddhism refers to all the great buddhas, especially Amitabha Buddha, the pure lands etc. without ever being able to prove that these assertions are factual or just mythological, and the same can be said for the recitation of specific phrases such as in Nichiren Buddhism.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:09 PM
 
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someone who is enlightened has nothing to prove.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:10 PM
 
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people don't self-identify as enlightened.
it is something others recognize in them.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,794 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Duvduv, your post is right on target.

I'm a Theravadan, and I have the same concerns. This idea that there have been 28 Buddhas...not a shred of evidence. Perhaps some evidence of Siddhartha. And the idea that the future Buddha has been identified -- Maitreya. Nothing to back that up either.

That is why I say to my Buddhist brothers the same thing that I say to christians and the people of almost any other religion -- focus on the principles, not on what can't be shown to be true due to an almost total lack of evidence.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:09 PM
 
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regarding "focus on the principles"
enlightenment IS a principle in Buddhism.


and people recognize enlightenment.
recognizing it IS proof that it exists.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Duvduv, your post is right on target. I'm a Theravadan, and I have the same concerns. This idea that there have been 28 Buddhas...not a shred of evidence. Perhaps some evidence of Siddhartha. And the idea that the future Buddha has been identified -- Maitreya. Nothing to back that up either. That is why I say to my Buddhist brothers the same thing that I say to christians and the people of almost any other religion -- focus on the principles, not on what can't be shown to be true due to an almost total lack of evidence.
it seems to me that if someone claims to be a Buddhist, and says "there is no evidence of enlightenment" and it can't be shown to be true, then that is not someone who is putting a "focus on the principles" of Buddhism.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
regarding "focus on the principles"
enlightenment IS a principle in Buddhism.


and people recognize enlightenment.
recognizing it IS proof that it exists.
I didn't say it doesn't exist.
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,794 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
it seems to me that if someone claims to be a Buddhist, and says "there is no evidence of enlightenment" and it can't be shown to be true, then that is not someone who is putting a "focus on the principles" of Buddhism.
1. So what is the hard evidence for enlightenment (not that I said there isn't any)?

2. There are many principles in Buddhism that do not rely on enlightenment.

3. Are you familiar with the Kalama Sutra?
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:00 AM
 
22,162 posts, read 19,213,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
1. So what is the hard evidence for enlightenment (not that I said there isn't any)?
2. There are many principles in Buddhism that do not rely on enlightenment.
3. Are you familiar with the Kalama Sutra?
bold above
is not a principle of Buddhism
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:08 AM
 
22,162 posts, read 19,213,038 times
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why do you need hard evidence
to focus on the principles of Buddhism?
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