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Linda, actually Orleans County IS part of the Rochester metro. Genessee was too unto they granted it separate Micropolitan, but it is much more tied to Monroe County than Erie (just the facts). Wyoming County also has strong ties to Rochester
Agreed. A lot of peripheral areas don't look at their supposed "metros". For example, Chautauqua County residents in the southern part of the county are more inclined to look at Erie, PA, than Buffalo, too. For example, when my employer switched health insurance coverage last year, everybody wanted to be sure that the doctors and hospitals in Erie were part of our provider network and cared much less that BSBC automatically included the Buffalo area doctors/hospitals. That's because people in Jamestown are much more strongly tied to Erie than Buffalo. OTOH, people from around Dunkirk, Fredonia or Forestville all look to Buffalo. For people in Allegany or Steuben Counties, both Buffalo and Rochester are almost as "alien" as NYC or Pittsburgh. They connect with Olean or with Corning.
Again, I think it's the natural tendency of people to want to stay "close to home" to do most things. They'll travel for something special, but for everyday activities, they don't want to go too far outside of their self-defined comfort zones, be that a city neighborhood, a limited suburban area or even part of a rural county.
Agreed. A lot of peripheral areas don't look at their supposed "metros". For example, Chautauqua County residents in the southern part of the county are more inclined to look at Erie, PA, than Buffalo, too. For example, when my employer switched health insurance coverage last year, everybody wanted to be sure that the doctors and hospitals in Erie were part of our provider network and cared much less that BSBC automatically included the Buffalo area doctors/hospitals. That's because people in Jamestown are much more strongly tied to Erie than Buffalo. OTOH, people from around Dunkirk, Fredonia or Forestville all look to Buffalo. For people in Allegany or Steuben Counties, both Buffalo and Rochester are almost as "alien" as NYC or Pittsburgh. They connect with Olean or with Corning.
Again, I think it's the natural tendency of people to want to stay "close to home" to do most things. They'll travel for something special, but for everyday activities, they don't want to go too far outside of their self-defined comfort zones, be that a city neighborhood, a limited suburban area or even part of a rural county.
None of those counties you mentioned are in either Buffalo or Rochester's MSA, so I don't really see your point here.
2) The threshold of twin city formation. Buffalo and Rochester are just far enough apart -- about 60 miles/100 km -- to be past the threshold where a "twin cities" dynamic can form. Same thing with Austin and San Antonio, Cincinnati and Louisville, Columbus and Dayton, Denver and Colorado Springs, and Charlotte, San Francisco and Sacramento, Greensboro, and Raleigh. A bit closer together, and the bonds might be easier to form -- Dallas and Fort Worth, Cleveland and Akron, Seattle and Tacoma, and San Francisco and San Jose.
3) The cultural divide. Rochester being more of a white collar city with a Northeastern feel, Buffalo being culturally blue collar with a more Great Lakes Midwestern vibe. Sure, the accents are similar, but there's no equivalent to Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Depew, or Lackawanna in suburban Rochester, nor does Erie County share Monroe County's broad expanses of solid upper middle class suburbia. (By national standards, Amherst is move-up middle class, not the wealthy edge city Buffalonians perceive it as.)
4) Cultural perceptions of distance. Buffalonians think anything more than a 20 minute drive away is "far". To Northtowners, the Southtowns could just as well be in Pennsylvania. To Southtowners, the Norrthtowns might as well sit on Lake Ontario. To both, Batavia might as well be in Massachusetts, and Rochester past the point where a map reads "THEYRE BE DRAGYNS HYRE" and shows the Thruway spilling cars over the planet's edge.
2) The threshold of twin city formation. Buffalo and Rochester are just far enough apart -- about 60 miles/100 km -- to be past the threshold where a "twin cities" dynamic can form. Same thing with Austin and San Antonio, Cincinnati and Louisville, Columbus and Dayton, Denver and Colorado Springs, and Charlotte, San Francisco and Sacramento, Greensboro, and Raleigh. A bit closer together, and the bonds might be easier to form -- Dallas and Fort Worth, Cleveland and Akron, Seattle and Tacoma, and San Francisco and San Jose.
3) The cultural divide. Rochester being more of a white collar city with a Northeastern feel, Buffalo being culturally blue collar with a more Great Lakes Midwestern vibe. Sure, the accents are similar, but there's no equivalent to Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Depew, or Lackawanna in suburban Rochester, nor does Erie County share Monroe County's broad expanses of solid upper middle class suburbia. (By national standards, Amherst is move-up middle class, not the wealthy edge city Buffalonians perceive it as.)
4) Cultural perceptions of distance. Buffalonians think anything more than a 20 minute drive away is "far". To Northtowners, the Southtowns could just as well be in Pennsylvania. To Southtowners, the Norrthtowns might as well sit on Lake Ontario. To both, Batavia might as well be in Massachusetts, and Rochester past the point where a map reads "THEYRE BE DRAGYNS HYRE" and shows the Thruway spilling cars over the planet's edge.
2) The threshold of twin city formation. Buffalo and Rochester are just far enough apart -- about 60 miles/100 km -- to be past the threshold where a "twin cities" dynamic can form. Same thing with Austin and San Antonio, Cincinnati and Louisville, Columbus and Dayton, Denver and Colorado Springs, and Charlotte, San Francisco and Sacramento, Greensboro, and Raleigh. A bit closer together, and the bonds might be easier to form -- Dallas and Fort Worth, Cleveland and Akron, Seattle and Tacoma, and San Francisco and San Jose.
3) The cultural divide. Rochester being more of a white collar city with a Northeastern feel, Buffalo being culturally blue collar with a more Great Lakes Midwestern vibe. Sure, the accents are similar, but there's no equivalent to Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Depew, or Lackawanna in suburban Rochester, nor does Erie County share Monroe County's broad expanses of solid upper middle class suburbia. (By national standards, Amherst is move-up middle class, not the wealthy edge city Buffalonians perceive it as.)
4) Cultural perceptions of distance. Buffalonians think anything more than a 20 minute drive away is "far". To Northtowners, the Southtowns could just as well be in Pennsylvania. To Southtowners, the Norrthtowns might as well sit on Lake Ontario. To both, Batavia might as well be in Massachusetts, and Rochester past the point where a map reads "THEYRE BE DRAGYNS HYRE" and shows the Thruway spilling cars over the planet's edge.
On the cultural divide portion, Rochester's equivalent to those more working/lower middle class communities are parts of Gates, Greece, Irondequoit and perhaps Henrietta. There is a east/west dynamic in the Rochester area where the east side is more affluent than the west side.
I would say that the outer Main Street suburbs(East Amherst, Williamsville and Clarence), would be at least solidly to upper middle class in most areas. Orchard Park and maybe a couple of others would be solidly middle class as well. This map I've posted in the past may give some ideas: Washington: A world apart | The Washington Post
According to 2010-2014 census info, the Rochester metro has a median household income of $52,717 and the Buffalo metro's figure is $50,726.
2) The threshold of twin city formation. Buffalo and Rochester are just far enough apart -- about 60 miles/100 km -- to be past the threshold where a "twin cities" dynamic can form. Same thing with Austin and San Antonio, Cincinnati and Louisville, Columbus and Dayton, Denver and Colorado Springs, and Charlotte, San Francisco and Sacramento, Greensboro, and Raleigh. A bit closer together, and the bonds might be easier to form -- Dallas and Fort Worth, Cleveland and Akron, Seattle and Tacoma, and San Francisco and San Jose.
3) The cultural divide. Rochester being more of a white collar city with a Northeastern feel, Buffalo being culturally blue collar with a more Great Lakes Midwestern vibe. Sure, the accents are similar, but there's no equivalent to Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Depew, or Lackawanna in suburban Rochester, nor does Erie County share Monroe County's broad expanses of solid upper middle class suburbia. (By national standards, Amherst is move-up middle class, not the wealthy edge city Buffalonians perceive it as.)
4) Cultural perceptions of distance. Buffalonians think anything more than a 20 minute drive away is "far". To Northtowners, the Southtowns could just as well be in Pennsylvania. To Southtowners, the Norrthtowns might as well sit on Lake Ontario. To both, Batavia might as well be in Massachusetts, and Rochester past the point where a map reads "THEYRE BE DRAGYNS HYRE" and shows the Thruway spilling cars over the planet's edge.
I've been calling for the toll removal myself and I agree, it's a psychological barrier. But if they did remove the tolls, more on and off ramps could be built and before you know it, it would fill up, especially with companies that want to be in the middle of the 2 cities.
I've been calling for the toll removal myself and I agree, it's a psychological barrier. But if they did remove the tolls, more on and off ramps could be built and before you know it, it would fill up, especially with companies that want to be in the middle of the 2 cities.
The problem is that without tolls, where does the money come from to build more on/off ramps?
The problem is that without tolls, where does the money come from to build more on/off ramps?
Well, first, almost everything we buy is shipped on the thruway and WE pay the tolls through higher prices. That money would now be in our own pockets. Hopefully there will be more economic activity from the synergy created by bringing the cities "closer together." The development along the thruway will also generate more property taxes.
Additionally, since you live in Jamestown, where is the money coming from to convert Rt 17 to I86? There are no tolls on that road either.
Agreed with all except #1. I've heard southtowners refer to Amherst as "the North"... had me confused for a bit.
I travel to Rochester for 1-2 weekends a month and stay with family. The change of pace does wonders for my sanity. It's a great, convenient place to visit from Buffalo when you have some kind of home base there.
I don't think it is the tolls stopping travel between the cities... perhaps it's true, if so I find it laughable that sitting behind the wheel 2-3 hrs round trip with no engaging scenery is a lesser barrier than 5 bucks in toll money.
I say bring on more tolls... the fewer vehicles blocking my attempt at a steady 80mph cruise, the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmwood
In my opinion, there's four things that are keeping Buffalo and Rochester from being more united:
1) STOP HERE PAY TOLL. [URL="http://i.imgur.com/G2TW0rs.jpg"]It's the same thing that keeps Buffalo and Niagara Falls from being more united, and Grand Island from being a more developed suburb[/URL]. Thruway tolls are a major psychological barrier that isolate Buffalo, and separate it from feeling a deeper connection with Rochester and the rest of Upstate New York.
2) The threshold of twin city formation. Buffalo and Rochester are just far enough apart -- about 60 miles/100 km -- to be past the threshold where a "twin cities" dynamic can form. Same thing with Austin and San Antonio, Cincinnati and Louisville, Columbus and Dayton, Denver and Colorado Springs, and Charlotte, San Francisco and Sacramento, Greensboro, and Raleigh. A bit closer together, and the bonds might be easier to form -- Dallas and Fort Worth, Cleveland and Akron, Seattle and Tacoma, and San Francisco and San Jose.
3) The cultural divide. Rochester being more of a white collar city with a Northeastern feel, Buffalo being culturally blue collar with a more Great Lakes Midwestern vibe. Sure, the accents are similar, but there's no equivalent to Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga, Tonawanda, Depew, or Lackawanna in suburban Rochester, nor does Erie County share Monroe County's broad expanses of solid upper middle class suburbia. (By national standards, Amherst is move-up middle class, not the wealthy edge city Buffalonians perceive it as.)
4) Cultural perceptions of distance. Buffalonians think anything more than a 20 minute drive away is "far". To Northtowners, the Southtowns could just as well be in Pennsylvania. To Southtowners, the Norrthtowns might as well sit on Lake Ontario. To both, Batavia might as well be in Massachusetts, and Rochester past the point where a map reads "THEYRE BE DRAGYNS HYRE" and shows the Thruway spilling cars over the planet's edge.
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