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This is all a waste of time. We just have to wait and see what happens. All this hypothetical chatter is just conjecture. As I said before, I hope this goes through one way or the other and they don't squander a once in a generation opportunity to do something transformative with the East Side. The funding has an expiration date and if not used it go elsewhere, since it is only for transportation. The surface idea is DOA because of the DOT not wanting to cause massive traffic problems by dumping traffic on streets that can't handle it. There are 2 options, cap and tunnel or nothing. Read this excellent article:
She is an outsider and the first upstate governor since 1885. She was on the ticket to balance it, as numerous upstate Lt Governors have been. NYC and vicinity are where all the power and money are concentrated. IMHO this is a tricky situation and you have to balance pragmatism with idealism. For Buffalo's sake, I hope something gets done.
Here's what went on, from my POV.
Bob Duffy, former Rochester's mayor was V. Governor, and they had a rift. Then Cuomo appointed Kathy Hochel, from Buffalo. Somewhere in that timeline Cuomo created the Buffalo Billion I & II. Bob Duffy, who was chairman of the Finger Lakes Economic Council established the STAMP groundwork with $10 million. Most likely Duffy was strong armed into doing this as it is now promoted on Buffalo's economic development site.
In conclusion, I believe Cuomo was setting himself up for a presidential run, using Buffalo as an example of what he could do. Too bad for him, he might have had a chance, as things are currently.
This is all a waste of time. We just have to wait and see what happens. All this hypothetical chatter is just conjecture. As I said before, I hope this goes through one way or the other and they don't squander a once in a generation opportunity to do something transformative with the East Side. The funding has an expiration date and if not used it go elsewhere, since it is only for transportation. The surface idea is DOA because of the DOT not wanting to cause massive traffic problems by dumping traffic on streets that can't handle it. There are 2 options, cap and tunnel or nothing. Read this excellent article:
If that is the case, then why even open up or extend a comment period at all?
An interesting portion of this article: "If by chance you have not heard of this project, now is the time we want to hear from you," Surdej said. "Community input is going to shape this final project, it has already shaped the project."
One of the big questions from the public, is why not fill-in the Kensington in order to reconnect the community - which is the established goal of the project.
"What we found is there is not the capacity to handle 75,000 cars a day, which use the Kensington expressway," Surdej said. "It's easy to just say, well, people will find their own way, but the radial streets, the 90, and the 190 would all be above capacity."
The DOT, however, did not conduct a dedicated traffic study to determine the impact of filling in the Kensington and how that would affect arterial roads like Walden Ave, Genesee St, Broadway, the 190 and 90.
According to Surdej, the NYSDOT received a traffic analysis from the Greater Buffalo Niagara Regional Transportation Council (GBNRTC).
When the project was first proposed, there were ten alternative plans for the project. Those were whittled down to the tunnel plan, or do nothing. (By who?)
"They were all eliminated for one reason or another," Surdej said. "The particular scope and objectives of this project at this time are only being met by the alternative that we're putting forward."
If the decision is made not to cap and tunnel a portion of the Kensington, it is likely that nothing to the expressway will be done.
"If this project, whatever form it takes, is not pulled ahead and constructed that $1 billion of transportation funding will be spent, but not in Western New York," Surdej said. "[Most] likely it will be spent in other parts of New York State, because it's dedicated transportation funding."
It boils down to cap and tunnel or nothing. Hopefully the residents will realize that turning things back to the 1950's is not realistic. I have taken those alternate routes and they take much longer with a zillion lights and if the 33 was to disappear the traffic would be hellacious and in the winter a total nightmare. Lets say you are the NYSDOT and you green-lit the surface option and it turns out to be a fiasco, your job could be at risk as someone has to be the scapegoat. I lived in Buffalo for 64 years and took all those routes 100s of times. If you live in Amherst you would do the 190 which is very circuitous or if you lived in Willamsville or Clarence the 90 which is much longer so you are wasting gas and contributing more pollution to the atmosphere. Genesee, Walden and Broadway are ok if you live in Cheektowaga or Lancaster but there are a million lights and they are not all synced so its slow going. The 33 connects to the Thruway and goes to the airport.
Last edited by Thundarr457; 11-29-2023 at 07:58 AM..
It boils down to cap and tunnel or nothing. Hopefully the residents will realize that turning things back to the 1950's is not realistic. I have taken those alternate routes and they take much longer with a zillion lights and if the 33 was to disappear the traffic would be hellacious and in the winter a total nightmare. Lets say you are the NYSDOT and you green-lit the surface option and it turns out to be a fiasco, your job could be at risk as someone has to be the scapegoat. I lived in Buffalo for 64 years and took all those routes 100s of times. If you live in Amherst you would do the 190 which is very circuitous or if you lived in Willamsville or Clarence the 90 which is much longer so you are wasting gas and contributing more pollution to the atmosphere. Genesee, Walden and Broadway are ok if you live in Cheektowaga or Lancaster but there are a million lights and they are not all synced so its slow going. The 33 connects to the Thruway and goes to the airport.
I think the difference is that the city isn't what it was when the highway was built either.
Also, there are examples of highways that are at surface level through cities already like 481 through Fulton. It is a highway, until you hit the city of Fulton, in which it becomes a surface, boulevard like street on a grid through the city of about 11,000 people and then opens back up once you get outside of the city heading towards Oswego. So, perhaps that is an example of the type of built environment that could be considered and it could allow for more development of the area in a city that is seeing more and more of it.
With that said, if the cap can at least increase home values and help bring development/infrastructure improvements, that is the key and would be great. However, if it doesn't then, you still can look at the DOT and ask "what was the point of doing this"?
There are still 75,000 cars a day using the highway. Its too late to start rethinking it. Just accept it and move on, its certainly an improvement over the existing way and a dream come true.
There are still 75,000 cars a day using the highway. Its too late to start rethinking it. Just accept it and move on, its certainly an improvement over the existing way and a dream come true.
We will see. We won't know until it actually happens. I think it will to some degree, but I do think that the community where the plan will take place may be looking at other examples that have worked in other places within the state that included hundreds of millions of dollars in development.
We will see. We won't know until it actually happens. I think it will to some degree, but I do think that the community where the plan will take place may be looking at other examples that have worked in other places within the state that included hundreds of millions of dollars in development.
I don't think those are comparable, as the 33 is a main artery of the City. I see the NYSDOT's point of why spend 1 Billion to cause massive traffic jams?
I don't think those are comparable, as the 33 is a main artery of the City. I see the NYSDOT's point of why spend 1 Billion to cause massive traffic jams?
Well, if the plan is to connect the neighborhood, that should be the focus, should it not? This may just be a matter of how to go about doing this or even seeing other options before just going with this as being the only option. It isn't as if there aren't other ways to get into/through the city, which again is not even at half of its peak or in the case of when the highway was finished in 1965, maybe a little over half its population at that time.
Also, other cities are planning by expanding other routes, such as the case with Syracuse's I-81 project. The elevated portion in between Downtown and University Hill is slated to be a surface boulevard, but for those driving through, I-481(a bypass around the city) will be expanded to hold more traffic. You could even adjust traffic lights to be timed accordingly as well. So, there are different examples of what cities have done within the state and even in other cities across the country
Buffalo is widely praised for it's hub and spoke city design. So with all those surface streets leading straight downtown, you would think something could be figured out.
BTW, route 17, before it became I 86 did the same thing through Corning.
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