Is Burlington For Us? (St. Johnsbury, Shelburne: houses, public school, college)

[JIer]

Hi Everyone,

I apologize as this may be long as part of this is really about gathering my thoughts. I'm really hoping for some insider input!

My husband and I have been tossing around the idea of relocation for the last couple of years. We are in our late 20s and live on one of the barrier islands of Charleston, SC. I am originally from MA and went to UNH. My husband was born in PA, but has lived in SC, TN, and Toronto. We met here in Charleston and have both lived here for the last 6 years or so. Over the past couple of years we have found ourselves talking more and more about relocating.

I am a Civil Engineer working at home for the Manchester NH branch of Autodesk. My husband's degree is in Hospitality & Tourism Managment but he is finishing his second bachelor's in Electrical Engineering.

We love Charleston, but we think we may be happier somewhere else. Why?

1. Housing. Though downtown Charleston itself is an old city, the barrier islands around it were plantations that were not developed until the 1930s. The bulk of development happened after WWII. So the architecture you see is a few nice old homes, tons of 1 story brick ranches, and then new developments of cheap vinyl siding and small lots. We take great pride in our home. We love old houses with their quirks and unique character. We do not want to live somewhere flooded with developments of cheap looking tract homes.

2. Education. The public school system here is terrible.

3. Diversity. This is going to sound terrible, so I apologize in advance. The culture here is incredibly different. I don't know how to really explain it unless you've lived here... I guess we're just looking for less diversity.

4. Weather. We miss snow!! We don't like worrying about tornadoes or hurricanes in the summer and fall. I'd take a blizzard over either anyday.

Some more about us...

We are not big city people. We love relaxing and drinking coffee on our front porch rockers. We are very friendly and polite (we do love the 'southern hospitality'). We love working on our house. We want a bigger yard to have a bigger garden. We love trees. We go well out of our way to recycle as much as possible. We eat organic, make almost everything from scratch, and compost scraps. We are continually making changes in our lives to eliminate as many chemicals as possible. We try to avoid as many big chain stores and restaurants as we can. We are active people - we kayak and bike, and love taking our dogs for walks in the park trails. We both snowboard (but haven't in years), and my husband surfs. We are part of several grassroots organizations to try to prevent overdevelopment in the area, protect the environment, and preserve our historical landmarks. We're just looking for somewhere where people have similar values where we can settle and raise our family.

Does Vermont sound like it might be for us?

[jackmccullough]

It's a little hard to say.

First off, comparing this thread with your other post, you can see what the taxes are going for. Your other post demonstrates that you're paying very low property taxes, but, as you point out here, you don't get very much for your money. In Vermont we pay property taxes that many people complain about, but we have a higher level of social services than in, say, the Deep South or across the river in New Hampshire.

I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what you're really looking for. If, reading between the lines, what you're really interested in is a place with more white people and fewer minorities, you may find that here. (Although racial and ethnic diversity has improved in Vermont in the last couple of decades.)

Unfortunately, though, you may not find the political views of the people who live here especially compatible with the political views of a person whose main goal is to get away from black people. Vermont is one of the most liberal states in the country, which may not be what you're looking for.

I hope I'm wrong about what you're looking for, so maybe you can elaborate. Anybody's free to move anywhere, but the characterization of Vermont as one of the whitest states in the country doesn't necessarily mean you'll find the cultural views you are interested in.

[JIer]

I had a feeling that the 'diversity' thing might not come off right. No, we're not looking to get away from black people, we are by no means racist. I guess we're looking to get away from the cultural segregation here. The white and black cultures are still very different and very separate here. We are just looking for a place where people intermingle and share more common values. It's hard to explain until you live down south - I didn't really understand it until I moved here.

[jackmccullough]

In that case Burlington might be worth a look for you.

Try spending some time reading our local "alternative" paper, sevendaysvt.com. You might also read some of the online news sources, like vtdigger.com, greenmountaindaily.com, and burlingtonpol.com.

[JIer]

Thank you, that's a great idea. I'll check out those links.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by JIer

1. Housing. Though downtown Charleston itself is an old city, the barrier islands around it were plantations that were not developed until the 1930s. The bulk of development happened after WWII. So the architecture you see is a few nice old homes, tons of 1 story brick ranches, and then new developments of cheap vinyl siding and small lots. We take great pride in our home. We love old houses with their quirks and unique character. We do not want to live somewhere flooded with developments of cheap looking tract homes.

I also admire well built, attractive homes. I have lived in a craftsman home, 20's dutch colonial, and now a small but sturdy log cabin. I've lived throughtout the Northeast and Midwest.

I have never seen a city with worse housing stock than Burlington. You won't get cheap tract houses, but you'll see a lot of turn of the century
multi family units that are on their last legs and non-descript ranch homes.
I'd say at least half of the interesting homes with charm and character built between 1910 to 1930 have been covered with siding due to relentless winters. There are some nice pockets, but they are few and far between and you'll really have to pay.

[JIer]

Thanks quickdraw, that's valuable input for us. That's disappointing to hear. Are there any particular towns around the Burlington area that have more or less architectural charm than others?

[arctichomesteader]

In Burlington you'll run into either old beautiful houses that have been poorly maintained, or modern flimsy junk. If you ever see vinyl siding on an old house up here, be very suspicious. People put it up over rotten wood and it doesn't solve the real problems.

If you want woods, etc., I'd look elsewhere than Burlington. Burlington is crowded and the entire area just sprawl. There's some other cities that might be more what you're looking for in central Vermont. There's also the Northeast Kingdom, places like St. Johnsbury, if you can find work there. A lot of the smaller towns around the state haven't seen enough growth to eliminate the older houses being in the majority...

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by JIer

Thanks quickdraw, that's valuable input for us. That's disappointing to hear. Are there any particular towns around the Burlington area that have more or less architectural charm than others?

I don't know if you are familiar with New England, but the southern part has the much nicer, classic New England architecture you are probably hoping for.

Towns around Burlington? I hate to say it but no. This was one of my biggest disappointments. And I looked, believe me. Jericho and Underhill have some here and there. Charlotte and Shelburne too.

The appeal is more in the land and laid back vibe. I don't mean to sound like you shouldn't live here, I love it here, but architecturally it's a bummer. Especially Burlington. I was in Albany NY the other day, nobody's idea of a great place, but it had a TON of great houses from earlier 20th century. Bummed me out a little.
The Five Sisters area in Burlington is known for small charming Bungalows. That would probably be your best bet. Some cool old houses on the Hill near Champlain College - big bucks.

check your personal messages

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by JIer

We are not big city people. We love relaxing and drinking coffee on our front porch rockers. We are very friendly and polite (we do love the 'southern hospitality'). We love working on our house. We want a bigger yard to have a bigger garden. We love trees. We go well out of our way to recycle as much as possible. We eat organic, make almost everything from scratch, and compost scraps. We are continually making changes in our lives to eliminate as many chemicals as possible. We try to avoid as many big chain stores and restaurants as we can. We are active people - we kayak and bike, and love taking our dogs for walks in the park trails. We both snowboard (but haven't in years), and my husband surfs. We are part of several grassroots organizations to try to prevent overdevelopment in the area, protect the environment, and preserve our historical landmarks. We're just looking for somewhere where people have similar values where we can settle and raise our family.

Does Vermont sound like it might be for us?

It sounds like much of northern New England would be right for you, including Vermont (although Burlington might be too urban for you, from the sound of it) but also much of New Hampshire and western Mass.

You might want to take a look at Keene NH. The town has a lot to offer since it has a state college, you're near plenty of hiking trails and skiing. It's about an hour from the beach but I'm not sure about the surfing though. Also between the weather and the insects up here you may not get much use out of the rockers, but Good luck!