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Hi, I wanted to give my personal opinion of Burlington, Vermont and suggest that people should think very carefully if they would want to relocate here.
Burlington tries to give the impression that it is some enlightened and trendy town like Boulder, CO or San Francisco. If you visit, it's clear the city has made a monumental effort to look nice, with the waterfront, Church Street mall, etc.
The only major problem is that demographically, Burlington is not San Francisco. It's much closer to West Virginia or some depressed rural area of Ohio. You can test this by turning on the radio. Besides a few French channels coming in from Quebec, it's all country music. Take a walk north from downtown and there's a bunch of people lounging on the porches of their falling apart houses drinking beers in the middle of the day. And they aren't college students. They are fifty year olds in wife-beaters getting in a fight over an abandoned bookcase that was left on the corner.
Burlington is also a tolerant liberal town, except that isn't entirely true either. There are skinheads, people driving around with confederate flags, KKK jerks leaving messages in minority's mailboxes, and more than a handful of stores that seem to have an affinity for starting at least two of the words of the store's name with the letter K. I went to the burrito store and there is just some obese guy lounging in there reading Mein Kampf. So yeah, Burlington, Vermont is a liberal tolerant city in theory, but I've never lived in a town that seemed less liberal and less tolerant in practice.
Burlington tries too hard. I think Burlington is aware that unlike Boulder, where maybe 90% of people are educated and normal people, Burlington is probably 20% normal people, and 80% basically perpetually drunk people that like to make fun of people who want to do something productive with their lives and harbor strange and suspicious resentments about people who live in normal places. The Old North End is basically a slum, The New North End is a trailer park, and Winooski and Essex are rundown rust belt style areas. To make up for its demographics, Burlington has tried to create a bunch of liberal projects that it can't really afford. These include a green energy system, and a class of social workers looking desperately for an audience. The result is energy bills that are five times what you would pay anywhere else, high taxes, and pushy and aggressive social services that desperately need grant money to stay solvent. The housing situation is also dismal, with decent two bedroom apartments starting at 1450. If you pay anything less than this, you will find yourself in a decrepit tiny ugly apartment. The decent apartments are also generally not within walking distance of anything.
In short, there is no reason whatsoever to relocate to Burlington, Vermont. If you live in a city and want something more rural, you can find a town that is cheaper and prettier and an hour or half an hour drive to civilization. Burlington is boring and depressing. Don't be fooled by its polished veneer and liberal attestations. Take a walk a few blocks north of downtown and you will get a better sense of how many people in Burlington seem to behave. Look inside of a few apartments before you think the area is cute too.
It's very rare that I see a post with which I so heartily disagree, almost point by point.
What is your definition of "normal," anyway? 90% of people in Boulder are normal and 80% of people in Burlington are not? Please elucidate.
I have lived in both cities, for the record.
My impression is that you moved to Burlington looking for Boulder and didn't find it there. I encourage you to research more thoroughly before your next move in your quest for normal.
Good luck! Clearly this move was an epic fail, but you'll find the place for you.
Hi, thanks for your message. I wasn't looking for another Boulder in Burlington. I was just comparing Boulder to Burlington because Burlington I think tries to present itself as a city that is similar to Boulder.
I think what I think is normal is less important than what I think is not normal. Perhaps "desirable" would be a better word than "normal". For example, being fifty years old and getting in a fight with a forty year old woman over an abandoned bookshelf is not normal. Reading Mein Kampf in a burrito store in public is also kind of weird. Calling your store "Kwik Kountry Mart" or whatever because you're either a white supremacist or you really like the letter K, is not normal either.
More significantly, I think people have good reason to feel taken advantage of by living here, particularly when the apartment and utility prices are this high, landlords have made little effort to make their apartments livable, and the city doesn't seem to have done much to encourage people to build new buildings or to control rent prices. Of course this is an issue across the country. However, Burlington is unique because it is so small and you really don't get much out of the city for the amount you are paying. I think Burlington also raises revenue in a way that is exploitative of everyday people.
I'm not saying everyone or everything in Burlington is bad. I am saying that I do not like living in Burlington and felt that my impressions from visiting it were quite different from the impression I got after moving here. What I described above is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of my bad experiences here. You are absolutely correct that I should have done my research more carefully. I wanted to encourage people who are considering moving here to do the same before they decide to move here too. Obviously, I am going to try to move as soon as possible.
Look…Burlington is not Boulder, or Cali. People speak as though they are similar, beyond the University's the similarities fade rapidly. CU is the superior school in 90% of every program/way, although UVM is no slouch...Boulder is amazing in world class ways...Burlington, not hardly. Burlington is run down and dumpy from the mall to the neighborhoods with only some exceptions, yes. Burlington is a 4 to 6 year town for students and those who stay a couple more years. The lake is incredible, if filthy to the point of being a health hazard and there is little to nothing there, which you'll notice after 2 weeks being there, if not sooner.
But is it as it has been portrayed…here...or in some media…they're trying to sell magazines…Burlington may be a choice area for college students, but for a Californian to compare Ca. To BTV, well, BTV is so diff't you can't compare. Other parts of Vt. are pretty great, 1/2 the year anyway.
If you want to enjoy what Vt. has to offer you have to go at least 45 minutes out of Burlington…and only rarely visit.
Hi, yes one problem we have is that Burlington is super boring. We haven't found anything to do anywhere else in the state either, although the town Vergennes is cute with the French style buildings. Brattleboro is okay but very far. I like Sherbrooke QC but that's far too. We took a rental car out past Bolton Valley and Stowe (I went there on vacation twenty years ago I'm from New Jersey originally) through Danville and Newport but it was still kind of boring. So was Jericho and St. Albans. If we had a car we might be less bored. I'm thinking less trendy and hyped places like Minneapolis or Pittsburgh or Cleveland would be a lot less boring and cheaper and require a car less.
First, in comparing radio there to what is playing in Appalachia, in the rural south the radio is predominantly church programming and right wing propaganda, with only a smattering of country music. VPR has the usual national broadcasts, and I'm surprised you didn't mention the Red Socks games, which make up a large portion of radio programming during the season. Whatever. Radio is a wasteland and has been for years. At least Vermont has "Music To Go To The Dump By."
Second, aside from the slam on "obese" (which the last time I checked had little correlation with intelligence) "Mien Kampf" only recently came out of copyright and back into print. I might need to get a copy to go with mine of Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Some people study history. You can make drive-by assumptions, but try not to foist them off as more than that.
"Calling your store "Kwik Kountry Mart" or whatever because you're either a white supremacist or you really like the letter K, is not normal either. " Don't watch "The Simpsons" much, huh?
"80% basically perpetually drunk people that like to make fun of people" Uhhh, aside from stereotyping on a large scale, isn't that what you are doing???
Housing costs are crazy in many locations. A tech who came out here a couple days back was saying that when he lived in Maryland, a dirty studio apartment started at $1200/mo. It is the new normal in cities.
Compared to NYC, Burlington is boring. To be honest though, the rest of the state rolls up the carpets and goes to bed soon after sunset, so in comparison it is a hot spot. Not having a car has to crimp your style though.
I don't think anyone in Burlington ever compared it to Boulder. I know I didn't.
I think it unreasonable to think that any city is made up entirely of eclectic and over-educated people, much less a city in a rural state.
Overall, it looks like a few folks got hit with a dose of reality. I agree that it is needed to counter some of the glowing reports on the city and state. Some of the comments about landlords an revenue generation are broader problems though. City living has some negatives. When living in Florida, I was outraged that the city slapped a tax on my directv receiver - which was invisible from the street, used no city services, cost the city nothing, but was an easy target of selective taxation. Burlington is not unique.
Hi, yes one problem we have is that Burlington is super boring. We haven't found anything to do anywhere else in the state either, although the town Vergennes is cute with the French style buildings. Brattleboro is okay but very far. I like Sherbrooke QC but that's far too. We took a rental car out past Bolton Valley and Stowe (I went there on vacation twenty years ago I'm from New Jersey originally) through Danville and Newport but it was still kind of boring. So was Jericho and St. Albans. If we had a car we might be less bored. I'm thinking less trendy and hyped places like Minneapolis or Pittsburgh or Cleveland would be a lot less boring and cheaper and require a car less.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,940,305 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
I don't think anyone in Burlington ever compared it to Boulder. I know I didn't.
I never heard that one either. And not much to do, since when?
I've lived in SF, and Madison, and Cambridge, and other "liberal" havens and Burlington is definitely up there in liberalness. It's not too liberal, just about right.
PS: Only a tiny minority of skinheads are racist, if someone didn't know. Most are into apolitical oi/ska, and even northern soul.
PPS: A 2 bedroom for $1450?? Sign me up, you'd have trouble getting a decent one bedroom for that where I live.
PPPS: Kwik Trip is a big gas station/convenience store chain in the midwest, is that racist now??!?!?!?
Hi thanks for replying to my post. I can't disagree with most of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea
Amusing.
First, in comparing radio there to what is playing in Appalachia, in the rural south the radio is predominantly church programming and right wing propaganda, with only a smattering of country music. VPR has the usual national broadcasts, and I'm surprised you didn't mention the Red Socks games, which make up a large portion of radio programming during the season. Whatever. Radio is a wasteland and has been for years. At least Vermont has "Music To Go To The Dump By."
Interesting, I've never been to the south (except Missouri if that counts) and didn't know what was on their radio. I'm comparing Vermont's radio to LA, Denver, NJ or other places that have other stations than country music and where country music is there but is less common.
Second, aside from the slam on "obese" (which the last time I checked had little correlation with intelligence) "Mien Kampf" only recently came out of copyright and back into print. I might need to get a copy to go with mine of Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." Some people study history. You can make drive-by assumptions, but try not to foist them off as more than that.
Yeah, he could be interested in history, I thought of that. Or he could be a very fat nazi.
"Calling your store "Kwik Kountry Mart" or whatever because you're either a white supremacist or you really like the letter K, is not normal either. " Don't watch "The Simpsons" much, huh?
Ya maybe that is normal in the US. On the other hand if I opened my own store and littered my store name with a bunch of K's, what I would think is hey, that's a lot of K's and I don't want people to think I'm a nazi or to offend minorities. But that's just me.
"80% basically perpetually drunk people that like to make fun of people" Uhhh, aside from stereotyping on a large scale, isn't that what you are doing???
Well no. I'm sober and criticizing some people.
Housing costs are crazy in many locations. A tech who came out here a couple days back was saying that when he lived in Maryland, a dirty studio apartment started at $1200/mo. It is the new normal in cities.
That's true. But at least you would get to live in a big city. There are other big cities where the rent is much cheaper and the apartments much nicer than Burlington.
Compared to NYC, Burlington is boring. To be honest though, the rest of the state rolls up the carpets and goes to bed soon after sunset, so in comparison it is a hot spot. Not having a car has to crimp your style though.
I don't think anyone in Burlington ever compared it to Boulder. I know I didn't.
I think it unreasonable to think that any city is made up entirely of eclectic and over-educated people, much less a city in a rural state.
Overall, it looks like a few folks got hit with a dose of reality. I agree that it is needed to counter some of the glowing reports on the city and state. Some of the comments about landlords an revenue generation are broader problems though. City living has some negatives. When living in Florida, I was outraged that the city slapped a tax on my directv receiver - which was invisible from the street, used no city services, cost the city nothing, but was an easy target of selective taxation. Burlington is not unique.
Yes that's true, there are a lot of problems with a lot of different places in the U.S.
Last edited by fromlosangeles; 07-19-2016 at 12:24 PM..
Hi thanks for the link. I voted for Obama so I'm not sure what my political agenda would be
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