Is California's Emphasis on Advanced Education Misplaced? (Stanford: home, unemployment rate)

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by mateo45

Well, they're certainly not difficult to look up:
10 Highest Paying Degrees 2011 – Best Majors in Demand Now

Although even if all the degreed jobs in California were in low demand now (not surprising in any down economy), surely you're not suggesting we "dumb down" the population to match (education is after all, about more than simply "job training", yes)?

All the jobs on that list are in engineering. Honestly, comparatively few people are cut out to be any kind of engineer. Suggesting that all the Liberal Arts grads working at Starbucks should have gone to engineering school doesn't work as most of them would flunk out the first year, if they got accepted at all.

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

All the jobs on that list are in engineering. Honestly, comparatively few people are cut out to be any kind of engineer. Suggesting that all the Liberal Arts grads working at Starbucks should have gone to engineering school doesn't work as most of them would flunk out the first year, if they got accepted at all.

You mean it's not enough that there are already hi-paying jobs for educated workers.... so now the "system" should also start creating jobs that fit the requirements of the population? What are you, some kind of "Socialist"?!

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by mateo45

You mean it's not enough that there are already hi-paying jobs for educated workers.... so now the "system" should also start creating "jobs" to fit the requirements of the population? What are you, some kind of "Socialist"?!

I'm saying the person working at Starbucks didn't need to spend a lot of taxpayer money to get that job. Education is great in principle, but many degrees awarded today have very little market value. So why is the taxpayer paying for them?

[mateo45]

So is that what this is really all about, is "tax-payer funded" education? And even presuming that much of higher education is actually "taxpayer funded", then what are you proposing to "regulate" it (along with the additional bureaucracy)... that we only provide assistance to degrees that can prove there's a job for them?

Were that conservatives as eager to "micro-manage" the "free market", as they are everything else!

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by mateo45

Well, they're certainly not difficult to look up:
10 Highest Paying Degrees 2011 – Best Majors in Demand Now

Although even if all the degreed jobs in California were in low demand now (not surprising in any down economy), surely you're not suggesting we "dumb down" the population to match (education is after all, about more than simply "job training", yes)?

Sure, education is certainly much more than training, the ability to question and to critically evaluate something is always of significant value.

However, we also have to take a look at our expenditures, especially when we are carving away at many core programs. Perhaps we pay too much for higher education, and have too many universities or perhaps some are too large.

Just pointing out a different way to look at this, there are significant cost involved with the state university systems.

[mateo45]

True enough, and education is a significant state overhead. Although it also seems to be a bit of a "chicken and egg" question as to whether the higher-end jobs attract the higher-end workers & culture, or the other way around. Plus there's the attendant impacts on crime, welfare, etc.

Besides, IMO just as a "quality of life" issue, would much prefer having a society with a lot of over-educated Starbucks types to the alternatives, and if that means paying some higher taxes, then so be it. After all, if living here were simply about being "cheap", then there's always places like Oklahoma or Missouri!

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by mateo45

So is that what this is really all about, is "tax-payer funded" education? And even presuming that much of higher education is actually "taxpayer funded", then what are you proposing to "regulate" it (along with the additional bureaucracy)... that we only provide assistance to degrees that can prove there's a job for them?

Were that conservatives as eager to "micro-manage" the "free market", as they are everything else!

Except that its not a free market. The government is already interfering. If someone wants to spend their own money on a degree won't help them increase their earning capacity, that's great. What I object to is paying to crank out tons of degrees with little value. When someone spends thousands of taxpayer dollars to wind up with the same job they could have had right out of high school, how is the taxpayer or society served?

[nullgeo]

You know, seems that the information age has now spawned a culture of "selective" information, education, association ... that is, mostly, folks are turning to news and information that appeals to their favorite mindset ... I'm not a bit convinced that broad education philosophies of the past can stand up to the fast-paced, sensationalist, selective information people are now choosing. It might be just plain pointless to expect broad liberal arts and critical thinking results at this point.

[mateo45]

Good point re: the modern ease of totally "selective" learning, further enabled by the elimination of the mandatory draft, which was arguably once one of the best "educators" of diversity, regardless which "social stratum" you came from.

Although even worse is that the "free market" ideology is now slowly turning all of human culture into simply one huge global "bazaar", where everything, no matter what, should be considered just another self-centered "economic transaction"!

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" - Oscar Wilde

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by mateo45

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" - Oscar Wilde

Great quote!

Well, as I wrote earlier, I am a perfect example of education gone wrong. Extensively educated by State and Federal subsidy, but for what? Did it at least make me a broader person contributing more to society than if I hadn't gone through the process? Uh, nope. As also mentioned, I was extensively self-educated, well-traveled, and former military before college. I am convinced that people who benefit from broad education and contribute back are basically pretty curious types to begin with for the most part. (Many people find me curious -- heh ) They are going to exhibit critical thinking skills anyway.

So I never used my education professionally and then made my way through life, supporting my family, by working in graphic arts, journalism and [print] communications, entrepreneurial businesses, and construction (carpentry). I did also teach public high school for three years. Needed a degree for that? Normally, yes, but in fact I didn't -- it was a public alternative experimental program for drop outs and they utilized me without teaching credentials!