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I'd place San Jose above San Diego and Long Beach due to high technology and more interesting places to go. The city recently completed its airport expansion, too.
I'd place San Jose above San Diego and Long Beach due to high technology and more interesting places to go. The city recently completed its airport expansion, too.
San Diego is already ranked above San Jose. San Diego has way more to do. It is renowned for its climate. It has the Seaworld and the Zoo/Wild Animal Park, Legoland, Soak City, Belmont Park; Old Town, Seaport Village, the Gaslamp Quarter, La Jolla. 70 miles of some of the best beaches in the world. It has the Cabrillo National Monument, wealthy Coronado within its sights. San Diego has the largest second largest single runway airport in the world. A major port. It has some of the best schools, i.e. UCSD and is one of the safest cities in the country. It's a center for biomedical research.
San Diego is already ranked above San Jose. San Diego has way more to do. It is renowned for its climate. It has the Seaworld and the Zoo/Wild Animal Park, Legoland, Soak City, Belmont Park; Old Town, Seaport Village, the Gaslamp Quarter, La Jolla. 70 miles of some of the best beaches in the world. It has the Cabrillo National Monument, wealthy Coronado within its sights. San Diego has the largest second largest single runway airport in the world. A major port. It has some of the best schools, i.e. UCSD and is one of the safest cities in the country. It's a center for biomedical research.
I think that trumps San Jose.
San Diego is definitely California's third city. It would probably be the first city in about 46 out of 50 states.
Oakland, Long Beach, Sacramento, San Jose, Anaheim, Fresno, Bakersfield
As far as importance:
Sacramento, San Jose, Oakland, Long Beach, Fresno, Anaheim, Bakersfield
IMO Oakland has a more interesting urban fabric than the other cities but that's more subjective. Also, Oakland has greater access to nature (other than the ocean) than any of the other cities. Sacramento, Oakland and Long Beach are also considerably more diverse than the others. Oakland has a larger culture scene (arts, music, etc.) than any of the others.
O/A it's Oakland for me but I can definitely see the argument made for Sacramento, SJ and Long Beach.
I have to disagree. How does Oakland have greater access to nature than Sacramento? Sacramento's backyard is the great wilderness of the Sierras and the foothills. That is wide open mountain country. You cannot beat that access to nature. Oakland is surrounded primarily by urbanity and even though there are some great hiking trails and spots in the East Bay, it's just not the same real wilderness that exists right in Sacramento's backyard. Sacramento is a true outdoorsy city.
Also, I will have to argue that Sacramento has a bigger cultural scene than Oakland as well. Although I think the two cities are roughly comparable there, and it will also depend on what kind of cultural amenities one is looking for. Sacramento has a great arts and music scene, it also has a decent nightlife scene. However, like I said before, Sactown and Oaktown are probably comparable in the culture scene but it will just depend on what one is looking for. But because Sacramento is the premier city in a large metropolitan region, it still edges out Oakland in the abundance of cultural activities.
I have to disagree. How does Oakland have greater access to nature than Sacramento? Sacramento's backyard is the great wilderness of the Sierras and the foothills. That is wide open mountain country. You cannot beat that access to nature. Oakland is surrounded primarily by urbanity and even though there are some great hiking trails and spots in the East Bay, it's just not the same real wilderness that exists right in Sacramento's backyard. Sacramento is a true outdoorsy city.
Also, I will have to argue that Sacramento has a bigger cultural scene than Oakland as well. Although I think the two cities are roughly comparable there, and it will also depend on what kind of cultural amenities one is looking for. Sacramento has a great arts and music scene, it also has a decent nightlife scene. However, like I said before, Sactown and Oaktown are probably comparable in the culture scene but it will just depend on what one is looking for. But because Sacramento is the premier city in a large metropolitan region, it still edges out Oakland in the abundance of cultural activities.
The Sierras are not actually in the Sacramento city limits whereas the wilderness in the Oakland Hills is. Oakland also has more parkland in and around the denser parts of Oakland than Sacramento does. If you're going to stretch the definition of what's "accessible" in each city to include stuff nearby then there's the obvious thing Oakland has that Sacramento can't match, but I don't want to include San Francisco in this discussion. And also Sacramento doesn't have access to the water, which Oakland obviously does.
In terms of contemporary music, the two are not even remotely close. In terms of older music, both have their strengths and weaknesses, Sacramento's being jazz and Oakland's being blues (and jazz to a lesser extent). I've heard that Sacramento is a great art city but so is Oakland... as far as venues, I'm not sure if Sacramento has anything that matches Yoshi's, the Paramount, Fox Theater, etc. Oakland also has just as many if not more world class acts coming through at all times. Dave Chappelle for example just did stand up at the Yoshi's in Oakland last Monday.
The Sierras are not actually in the Sacramento city limits whereas the wilderness in the Oakland Hills is. Oakland also has more parkland in and around the denser parts of Oakland than Sacramento does. If you're going to stretch the definition of what's "accessible" in each city to include stuff nearby then there's the obvious thing Oakland has that Sacramento can't match, but I don't want to include San Francisco in this discussion. And also Sacramento doesn't have access to the water, which Oakland obviously does.
In terms of contemporary music, the two are not even remotely close. In terms of older music, both have their strengths and weaknesses, Sacramento's being jazz and Oakland's being blues (and jazz to a lesser extent). I've heard that Sacramento is a great art city but so is Oakland... as far as venues, I'm not sure if Sacramento has anything that matches Yoshi's, the Paramount, Fox Theater, etc. Oakland also has just as many if not more world class acts coming through at all times. Dave Chappelle for example just did stand up at the Yoshi's in Oakland last Monday.
The Oakland Hills are nice. But they are not wilderness. I don't know what your idea of wilderness is, but I doubt any serious camper would consider the Oakland Hills "wilderness".
As far as venues are concerned, Sacramento definitely has as many or more venues to match Oakland. What comes to mind right off the bat is the Memorial Auditorium, Ace of Spades, Crest Theatre, and a large number of small theaters throughout the city. I'm sure I'm missing a ton of other venues, perhaps our local expert wburg could join in this discussion and bring in other examples.
Anyways, Yoshi's is nice. But I've been to Jack London square many times and it is dead over there. Yeah, Yoshi's has life going on, but that's about it. Even on weekend nights, it's dead over there. While on Friday and Saturday evenings, Sacramento's Old Sac, Midtown and increasingly K and R Streets in Downtown are pretty jammed pack with people having fun.
I would think that Oakland would have really solid nightlife, but the times I've hung out there at night, different places would be jamming, but the surrounding areas, not so much. I think Sac has a higher concentration of nightlife than Oakland, and more than San Jose as well. The reason why is obvious. While people in Oakland and San Jose normally go to San Francisco for the nightlife. Sacramento is the center of a metro area of 2.3 million where the folks from the surrounding areas flock to the city center for the nightlife.
Last edited by sacramento916; 08-22-2011 at 02:11 AM..
The Oakland Hills are nice. But they are not wilderness. I don't know what your idea of wilderness is, but I doubt any serious camper would consider the Oakland Hills "wilderness".
As far as venues are concerned, Sacramento definitely has as many or more venues to match Oakland. What comes to mind right off the bat is the Memorial Auditorium, Ace of Spades, Crest Theatre, and a large number of small theaters throughout the city. I'm sure I'm missing a ton of other venues, perhaps our local expert wburg could join in this discussion and bring in other examples.
Anyways, Yoshi's is nice. But I've been to Jack London square many times and it is dead over there. Yeah, Yoshi's has life going on, but that's about it. Even on weekend nights, it's dead over there. While on Friday and Saturday evenings, Sacramento's Old Sac, Midtown and increasingly K and R Streets in Downtown are pretty jammed pack with people having fun.
I would think that Oakland would have really solid nightlife, but the times I've hung out there at night, different places would be jamming, but the surrounding areas, not so much. I think Sac has a higher concentration of nightlife than Oakland, and more than San Jose as well. The reason why is obvious. While people in Oakland and San Jose normally go to San Francisco for the nightlife. Sacramento is the center of a metro area of 2.3 million where the folks from the surrounding areas flock to the city center for the nightlife.
Oakland's nightlife is centered in the neighborhoods... there's always more going on in Temescal, Piedmont Ave, Rockridge, etc. than there is in Downtown (although this is changing rapidly).
I completely agree with you that Jack London is dead. Emeryville stole a lot of it's thunder... however, there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Quite a few high-end restaurants are filling the space and there's talk of other clubs coming in to fill the gap that Sweet Jimmy's left.
There's small theaters throughout Oakland too, but all three of the ones I mentioned attract headlining acts, along with the Coliseum. Oakland also has a thriving local theater scene, although it shares that in some ways with Berkeley.
Old Sac is very vibrant but it's also not exactly a "cultural" neighborhood either aside from the wild west setting. Most of it is concession stand type-food with some high end joints every blue moon and I didn't notice a theater or a club when I was over there although there were plenty of bars. It's mainly a tourist attraction as opposed to a cultural hub. I haven't been to midtown though so I can't speak on that.
As for the nature, I don't know what you consider wilderness if you don't lump Redwood Park into that category:
San Diego is definitely California's third city. It would probably be the first city in about 46 out of 50 states.
Im still not sold on San Diego being above Sacramento or San Jose.
Sacramento is extremely influential as the state capitol and San Jose totally blows San Diego away as far as importance in business.
But then, San Diego is still a larger MSA than either Sac or SJ and I believe San Diego also has a more distinct image than the other 2. People associate San Diego with its beautiful beaches and climate--its a far bigger tourism city than the other two.
Oakland's nightlife is centered in the neighborhoods... there's always more going on in Temescal, Piedmont Ave, Rockridge, etc. than there is in Downtown (although this is changing rapidly).
I completely agree with you that Jack London is dead. Emeryville stole a lot of it's thunder... however, there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Quite a few high-end restaurants are filling the space and there's talk of other clubs coming in to fill the gap that Sweet Jimmy's left.
There's small theaters throughout Oakland too, but all three of the ones I mentioned attract headlining acts, along with the Coliseum. Oakland also has a thriving local theater scene, although it shares that in some ways with Berkeley.
Old Sac is very vibrant but it's also not exactly a "cultural" neighborhood either aside from the wild west setting. Most of it is concession stand type-food with some high end joints every blue moon and I didn't notice a theater or a club when I was over there although there were plenty of bars. It's mainly a tourist attraction as opposed to a cultural hub. I haven't been to midtown though so I can't speak on that.
As for the nature, I don't know what you consider wilderness if you don't lump Redwood Park into that category:
Old Sac is actually considered the "dead part" of central Sacramento. Today, Midtown and also Downtown is where the action is at. I brought up Old Sac to compare it with Jack London Square because these two are supposedly the waterfront destinations of both cities and are both considered to be dead areas, however, at least in Old Sac, you still a considerable amount of people on weekend nights, whereas you don't see that in Jack London square.
I've been to Temescal, Rockridge, Piedmont. Like I said, Oakland is a cool town, I like it. I'll leave it at that.
I think it depends. To me Oakland and SJ are part of the Bay area and part of major city so-to-speak. Also SD to me is kind of tweener and not at the level of the bay or LA, in many ways though my favorite city. So If SD is in the mix, to me that is the answer is SD, if not then Sacramento for me
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