California Dream Act Signed By Jerry Brown: Second Bill Passes (Sacramento: homes, colleges)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

Trying to view this objectively... Pretty hard...

Someone explain the reasons why this was passed? I mean, for lack of suitable word, the rationale?

Why should any illegal who isn't paying income tax be allowed to receive bennies? No doubt to the expense of legal taxpayers..

You aren't trying very hard because you're not even characterizing matters correctly. Firstly the dream act doesn't apply to "any illegal", instead illegals that look pretty much like legal US/state residents except their legal status, that is they or their parents are going to be paying taxes.

In terms of the rationale, its pretty simple, there are numerous youngsters in California (and similar) states that quack just like legal residents, but due to dysfunctional federal immigration policy they can't become legal. These people aren't going any where, so its a question of whether you're going to give them a chance to better themselves or join gangs, etc. California can't grant these folks legal US residency, but they can grant them a sort of defacto residency within California.

Also, just to note, there was a similar federal policy in 2010 (that is now dead in the water because the Republican controlled house) that was going to grant youngsters a path to legal residency via college. Furthermore, other border states have similar policies, even highly conservative Texas.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I enjoy watching this controversy get peoples knickers all up in a bunch ... as usual huge numbers of folks focus on sideshows, ignoring the big issues ... there are good arguments for educating youth from disadvantaged backgrounds ... these youth are here ... figure out how to
• have them not be here to begin with --
• or deal with them in uneducated poverty and what poverty breeds --
• or utilize them as educated opportunity breeds.
But before you worry about any of those three options, consider that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry in solving the threats to economy and democracy that we face. Consider the prioritization of these issues. There are financial elites controlling politics and controlling opinion ... the elites love to play distraction issues to keep you all under their thumbs ... getting you excited about the appearance of injustice and threat -- while they walk away eating the real cake.

Here's your threat in this case:
"undocumented students would only become eligible for Cal Grants once all resident students have received such an award. Analysis of the bill by the Assembly noted that the demand for the aid -- which can provide up to $12,192 a year to pay for college expenses at qualifying California academic institutions or trade schools -- far exceeds the amount of funding typically provided, making it unlikely that undocumented students would be considered. The California Department of Finance estimates that 2,500 students, at a cost to the state of $14.5 million, will qualify for Cal Grants thanks to AB 131. This represents 1 percent of Cal Grant's total $1.4 billion funding ..."

So, Jerry signed a Bill that gets him political points where he targets ... but the Bill doesn't really cost him (or the population) hardly anything in real dollars. It's all smoke and mirrors. Illusion. Yeah ... freak out about this 1% of Cal Grant, while 1% of our population runs amok with the real money ... guiding your desires through trends and fashions and all your consumer fueled desires.

Your quoting liberal propaganda spin to make your argument which I say is bogus and your just supporting the liberal agenda. You know exactly why illegals are getting all the public funding support and what it means to the progressive liberal agenda. Yes, you talk about the elites masterminding everything ... but we all know the elites are the progressive liberals.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by Don9

Your quoting liberal propaganda spin to make your argument which I say is bogus and your just supporting the liberal agenda. You know exactly why illegals are getting all the public funding support and what it means to the progressive liberal agenda. Yes, you talk about the elites masterminding everything ... but we all know the elites are the progressive liberals.

LOL that is so true!

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by user_id

You aren't trying very hard because you're not even characterizing matters correctly. Firstly the dream act doesn't apply to "any illegal", instead illegals that look pretty much like legal US/state residents except their legal status, that is they or their parents are going to be paying taxes.

In terms of the rationale, its pretty simple, there are numerous youngsters in California (and similar) states that quack just like legal residents, but due to dysfunctional federal immigration policy they can't become legal. These people aren't going any where, so its a question of whether you're going to give them a chance to better themselves or join gangs, etc. California can't grant these folks legal US residency, but they can grant them a sort of defacto residency within California.

Also, just to note, there was a similar federal policy in 2010 (that is now dead in the water because the Republican controlled house) that was going to grant youngsters a path to legal residency via college. Furthermore, other border states have similar policies, even highly conservative Texas.

So you think all illegals should be legal and should be able to tap tax payer funds. You think we should have open borders and allow anyone to come and go as they please but the USA tax payers are still on the hook to pay for their welfare.

Do you also believe we should eliminate capitalism?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Don9

So you think all illegals should be legal and should be able to tap tax payer funds. You think we should have open borders and allow anyone to come and go as they please but the USA tax payers are still on the hook to pay for their welfare.

Nope, I don't think all illegals should be legal, but the ones that are smart enough and motivated enough to get into college? You bet.

Should the US have open borders? No, it should have a more open immigration policy with controlled borders.

But like before (with European immigration), much of this is going to be a non-issue in the next 1-2 decades due to birthright citizenship.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by user_id

Nope, I don't think all illegals should be legal, but the ones that are smart enough and motivated enough to get into college? You bet.

Should the US have open borders? No, it should have a more open immigration policy with controlled borders.

But like before (with European immigration), much of this is going to be a non-issue in the next 1-2 decades due to birthright citizenship.

With the current policies ... in 1-2 decades the overwhelming majority will be Mexicans.

[NewToCA]

Someone is trying to organize efforts to repeal it:

Assemblyman Tim Donnelly, R-Twin Peaks, said the bill would force citizens to compete with undocumented immigrants for public resources...

Donnelly set up a website headlined, "Stop the Nightmare Act," and he pledged to launch a referendum campaign.


Governor OKs college aid for undocumented immigrants in California - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

[scottfreez]

First: Thank you to user_id and null geo for your respective previous comments.

I don't know much about the scenario- what constitutes an "illegal" who is eligible for such benefits, and what the actual wording of the bill is.

Second: I ask that commentors, when making factual statements, would include links to relevant sources.

Unlike a lot of posters who tend towards knee-jerk responses and allegations of propaganda spinning on behalf of their detractors (we all know who you are and I won't bother calling you out, but simply rather state that your views are rendered hollow by your rhetoric and you might as well give up now because you're not convincing anyone), I'm here to try and understand the details of the situation. And that's why I asked.

It is indeed hard to believe that the case could be so simple - so completely wrong - that a California governor would simply sign over a huge amount of taxpayer money to illegal immigrants who are paying no tax and thus depriving deserving taxpayers of tose resources.

Null Geo and UserID- please provide links for your statements? Thanks.

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I enjoy watching this controversy get peoples knickers all up in a bunch ... as usual huge numbers of folks focus on sideshows, ignoring the big issues ... there are good arguments for educating youth from disadvantaged backgrounds ... these youth are here ... figure out how to
• have them not be here to begin with --
• or deal with them in uneducated poverty and what poverty breeds --
• or utilize them as educated opportunity breeds.
But before you worry about any of those three options, consider that there are MUCH bigger fish to fry in solving the threats to economy and democracy that we face. Consider the prioritization of these issues. There are financial elites controlling politics and controlling opinion ... the elites love to play distraction issues to keep you all under their thumbs ... getting you excited about the appearance of injustice and threat -- while they walk away eating the real cake.

What does this have to do with the current topic at hand?

As I've mentioned before, removing illegal immigrants by the masses would be a logistical nightmare. Our government on the state and federal level will never deport the illegal immigrants who are, at a certain extent, an integral part of our overall economy. I'd rather they be educated to become productive members of our society.

That said, I don't support illegal immigration. I am a strong proponent of enforcing the immigration laws and setting quotas. I'm not sure if you and the others feel the same, however.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

Someone is trying to organize efforts to repeal it:

Assemblyman Tim Donnelly, R-Twin Peaks, said the bill would force citizens to compete with undocumented immigrants for public resources...

Donnelly set up a website headlined, "Stop the Nightmare Act," and he pledged to launch a referendum campaign.


Governor OKs college aid for undocumented immigrants in California - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

We need to recall Brown