California Bashing ... Enough Already! (San Diego, San Bernardino: houses, incomes, income tax)

[fishbowl]

Sheri, I think you are addressing me. I'll try to respond to your questions, and hope you understand. First of all, California is my home state and I get angry too when I hear people bashing it. I spent 50 years of my life there, from birth on.

My husband was laid off from the aerospace industry in Southern California in the 90s when the massive lay-offs happened. Our house sold, and yes, there was a bit of money, but not like you think. Values had risen some from when we'd bought, but took a nose dive at that time, due to so many aerospace workers trying to sell. The big surge in value didn't start until after we left. So, we really didn't walk away with all that much.

The lay-off, capital gains taxes, and paying off bills abruptly bottomed us out. We were left with nothing but our belongings and a small savings, and we moved into a rental in the midwest. After a while, even the savings was gone. My husband got a job at barely above minimum wage, just to put food on the table. When I said we were living on less than our housepayment had been in California, that is what happened.

After about a year and a half, he found a job in his field, amazingly enough, in that town we were renting in. We've since moved to a small town and he drives it every day.

In this area you can live in a small town within commuting distance of jobs in a bigger town, and get a house for under 50,000 dollars. That's what we've done.

The house across from me is for sale for 54 grand and everyone is appalled that she's asking that much for that house. Housing sales are flat here right now, it's a real buyer's market.

We bought this house 5 years ago. It's a decent house, and we're happy in it. We paid just over 40 grand at a time when other houses in town were going for from 5,000 for a small fixer to 70,000 for a huge Victorian place. We used retirement money to pay it off recently, because the interest we were paying out was more than our money was earning.

We did get a lot out of our life in California. We raised our children there. We camped up and down the coast. I was born there and always thought I'd die there, but obviously I won't.

If any of the posts about gays and satan worshipping were aimed at me, that's not where I'm coming from at all. I love many, many things about California. And there are many things I miss a whole lot.

But it would be dishonest of me to say that I don't miss some things that have changed. Like when I was a kid, I could walk through neighborhoods, that people get shot in today. My grandmother and I used to go shopping downtown in Long Beach and come home at night, on the bus, after all the stores closed. We never had a problem. That was over 50 years ago.

I never said that California is going to hell. I said that I'm disappointed in a lot of the changes.

Things aren't always by forumla, like no people + no traffic = No money. First of all, people can retire here just fine. Secondly, we DO make money here, our choice was to drive the 20 miles or so.

We're not rich, never have been, never will be. But we're happy and content here. I am certain that if we were to move back to California, if we could possibly somehow afford it, we'd be happy there too, because that's who we are inside ourselves, in our marriage and our relationships. We just find the joy wherever we live.

Happiness is made by the people who experience it. People who bash general areas are likely expecting for an outside influence to make them happy. LIkely they'd bash anyplace they lived for any appreciable amount of time.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not disappointed in some of the directions California has gone.

I am sorry if I offended some by saying I have points of disappointment. That doesn't make the state hell or even bad. It just means that I have disappointments. And one is that there's no way I can even choose to live there if I decided I wanted to. It's just so horribly expensive from my perspective.

When I'm comparing this area, I'm not saying it is better. What's good to any individual is entirely subjective. I'm saying that we can live here comfortably. If we were still there, we'd be struggling terribly. That's just the reality of our situation.

Janet

Originally Posted by sheri257

You know ... this is the other thing I don't understand.

If you moved or are in the process of moving ... and are able to pay cash for a house out of state then, I'm assuming it's because you were able to cash out your California equity at a very nice price since that's what a lot of people have done.

Well ... in that case, California has still been very good for you ... has it not?

People complain about this place being overrun with development, traffic this and that ... California is going to hell, etc.

But I've also lived in those quiet places with no traffic, no development, etc.

No people, no traffic, no development = no money either.

In the end, living in California was probably better for you than not because how else could you pay cash for a house elsewhere, unless you were a millionaire to begin with?

So why bemoan a state that gave you such great benefits to begin with? I just don't get it.

[sheri257]

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my original post ...

My thoughts were really directed to the really inflammatory California bashing posts like ...

OC is too perfectionist ... incredibly ridiculous posts like that.

If people left for a cheaper cost of living ... I have no problem with that. I'm living in the California desert for the same reason.

Although I do sometimes question those cheaper places only because the wages in those areas, at least for my profession, don't even come close to what I make in California.

[shannon94]

Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood

There's more to life than money. Of course, not everybody feels that way. Apparently, some people are more fond of traffic, noise and overdevelopment than others. Some people embrace greed. To each his own-- you are well-blessed here, so enjoy!

Expressing a viewpoint isn't complaining... or bemoaning. This is, after all, a public forum where people are encouraged to present diverse opinions. Not everybody's viewpoint will coincide neatly with yours. Every difference of opinion isn't an argument... or a debate... or a perceived bashing. It's just an opinion... and you don't have to "get it," if it isn't yours.

Bravo!!!!

[shannon94]

Originally Posted by sheri257

Although I do sometimes question those cheaper places only because the wages in those areas, at least for my profession, don't even come close to what I make in California.

My husband makes more here in Texas doing the same job he did in California (oddly enough he works for a company in San Diego now...but they had to pay him more money than they do the employees in Cali because he was in demand and they didnt want to lose out on hiring him...the Texas company is still trying to get him back..lol) ....and our cost of living went down...so it was actually a double raise. There's just as much money here as there is in Cali. Now maybe in Casper Wyoming it might be different...lol. I don't hate California...San Diego is my home and always will be ....doesn't mean I have to agree with what's going on out there.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by shannon94

There's just as much money here as there is in Cali.

Nope ... I'm sure it varies widely by profession but ... here's the actual data.

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Average Texas income: $36K a year

Average California income: $44K a year

May 2006 State Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

From Texas A&M University:

Stagnant Personal Income

Personal income levels in Texas have not changed dramatically over the past several years. While home sales and home prices have increased, a good part of the relatively slow rate of increase can be attributed to this lack of personal income growth.

Since 2001, per capita personal income in Texas has increased only 4.1 percent. Median family income increased by only 5.4 percent.

So no ... there's not just as much money in Texas.

[Californiaguy2007]

I think all this Bashing just makes us Californians Stronger and it's also a Wake Up Call to the Problems were Facing.

[shannon94]

lol ..So there's a difference of 8k a year for the AVERAGE Big deal. Care to compare the gap between incomes and cost of living in these two states? An extra 8K isn't going to take you very far!! I wonder who has more disposable income??? Higher pay in California is ...in reality...a facade.

Let's see what happens to jobs/incomes in California over the next couple of years shall we.

[it's all good]

Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart

I hear you, I get defensive too because California is a great state. I was in Atlanta a few months back and it was like California was the only topic on everyones minds...it is definitely the focus of blame for Americas problems, which is just silly.

It's the weather....they're all jealous.... : )

[it's all good]

I just got a hefty raise... as many people leave California there are just as many or more who come into it, todos los tiempos. And this looks like it's going to get hot for no good reason, so this will be my last post on the subject. I don't get it. If I don't like your state, I'm sure not going to waste my time going over there complaining about it....I don't let things I don't like rent space in my head. : ) It's all the United States, to each his own.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by shannon94

lol ..So there's a difference of 8k a year for the AVERAGE Big deal. Care to compare the gap between incomes and cost of living in these two states? An extra 8K isn't going to take you very far!! I wonder who has more disposable income??? Higher pay in California is ...in reality...a facade.

Let's see what happens to jobs/incomes in California over the next couple of years shall we.

You claimed there's just as much money in Texas ... I was just pointing out that there isn't.

As for the $8K difference ... that's everybody including janitors and waiters.

But when you look at the professions like architecture/engineering, healthcare professionals and lawyers the pay difference is $20K a year more, on average, in California.

Afterall ... why do you think the cost of living in California got so high to begin with and Texas stayed so cheap? It was because incomes rose in California, but not in Texas.

Of course California housing prices rose too much in proportion to incomes but, that may be corrected with this down market.

People seem to forget that fact that for everyone who paid $500K or more for a house ... there was a California seller who profited more than Texas homeowners ever did. There was a hellava lot of disposable income from those sales.

If you cashed out your California equity and paid cash for your Texas house ... chances are you were able to do that only because you lived in California. You would never have been able to do that if you lived in Texas.

Either way ... there's still a lot more money in California.