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Old 08-26-2012, 07:45 AM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,686,824 times
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Amazing from municipal bankruptcies and pensions to food stamps. Keep it in topic please.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,211,458 times
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Obviously y'all don't want to discuss the pension issue...
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,201 posts, read 16,683,192 times
Reputation: 33341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Interesting reading for all those concerned. I would suspect this has huge implicatons for retiree's of Counties and Cities looking to trim costs. State and Fed retiree's arn't subject to the same bankruptcy laws, yet. However since this is a legal precendent it could have far ranging implications for all pensions.

The State Worker: Column Extra: Judge says Stockton bankruptcy can break retiree health guarantees
Interesting article, Bulldogdad. I saw that lawsuit coming. I'm shocked at the benefits city retirees receive, frankly. I don't begrudge them from a pension check but the free healthcare they receive is disgusting. They haven't had to pay one dime for it. It's fully funded by the city. You don't see that in the county government system. I know of two separate counties that operate on different levels. One allows you to convert unused sick leave hours into $$ that will help to pay monthly health insurance premiums. That's not such a bad thing. It deters employees from chewing up their sick leave on ridiculous things, like mental health days

Other counties provide a monthly stipend for the years of service and age at retirement. The more years of service, the greater the amount. Although the financial hit in 2008 caused one county to rescind that stipend so a lot of people lost it altogether. It was never guaranteed so they had the right. Fortunately, no loss in the monthly pension amounts. Still, when faced with a 900-1200 a month premium payment, it can be crushing.

Getting back to city retirees, though. And this goes for federal employees, as well. There is absolutely NO reason for them receiving life-time healthcare benefits when they retire. They should all be paying into that benefit. I have no problem with them receiving a small stipend for the expense but paying it entirely? Forget it. Further, the cities that made this blunder in the 90's should be smacked upside the head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Nah! It ain't the New Madrid. It will be appealed to the hilt and states can't declare bankruptcy. Besides, it's California. Y'all would rather cuddle and support illegals than pay honest workers what they've been promised and earned. Not likely to find that in these here Aux Arcs.
Not all Californians support illegals, Curmudgeon. Some of us are pretty ticked that they receive so much government help when they haven't earned it. California is still the welfare state. Thank the leaders in Sacramento for that and thank the stupid voters who put them into office.
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Old 08-26-2012, 05:12 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,468,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
Not all Californians support illegals, Curmudgeon. Some of us are pretty ticked that they receive so much government help when they haven't earned it. California is still the welfare state. Thank the leaders in Sacramento for that and thank the stupid voters who put them into office.
Oh I know that, being native born and having lived there for about 45 of my 66 years. As for who to thank, you're right on both counts. Keeping on-topic, remember it's the current Governor who gave away the state to the public employee unions and the pension fiasco is a direct result.
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Old 08-26-2012, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,905,230 times
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Pay, at least at the state level, has gotten out of hand. The total number of employees of the state government has actually gone down but total compensation has gone up dramatically. Last year (2011) total employee compensation by the state went up 9.3% while over the last decade employee compensation has gone up 42.4%. Now, much of that is the state topping up pension funds (I.E one time payments instead of reoccurring payments) which they are legally obligated to due mainly because they've spent the last three decades shorting the pension funds but that still leaves some questions about over generous compensation especially of political appointees and their staff.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalert...st-decade.html
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:43 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,389,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Interesting reading for all those concerned. I would suspect this has huge implicatons for retiree's of Counties and Cities looking to trim costs. State and Fed retiree's arn't subject to the same bankruptcy laws, yet. However since this is a legal precendent it could have far ranging implications for all pensions.

The State Worker: Column Extra: Judge says Stockton bankruptcy can break retiree health guarantees
It is not a legal precedent until an appeals court has ruled on it.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:51 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,686,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It is not a legal precedent until an appeals court has ruled on it.
Wrong, go look it up in Black's Law.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:16 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,468,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It is not a legal precedent until an appeals court has ruled on it.
You are correct. Appellate courts rule on and create precedents. Lower courts provide opinions and rulings. They may be cited in other cases but they are not binding.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:20 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,201 posts, read 16,683,192 times
Reputation: 33341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Oh I know that, being native born and having lived there for about 45 of my 66 years. As for who to thank, you're right on both counts. Keeping on-topic, remember it's the current Governor who gave away the state to the public employee unions and the pension fiasco is a direct result.
It's maddening to see the governor overlook this. He refuses to acknowledge that pension reform is needed in California. I don't have statistics but judging from the numbers, this is only going to get worse. As more "boomers" reach the age of retirement, the state and city governments aren't going to be able to keep up with the demands on benefits. It's time for pension reform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
It is not a legal precedent until an appeals court has ruled on it.

It doesn't have to make it to the appeals court to become a precedent.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:29 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,468,022 times
Reputation: 29337
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
It doesn't have to make it to the appeals court to become a precedent.
Been away from it too long. I was thinking of case law. Since the court issued a written opinion this one sticks as precedent, at least as regards bankruptcy proceedings. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here, if anywhere.
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