Can California Requisition Water From the Columbia River via Congress? (Riverside: house, taxi)

[jerrygar]

The vision I'm talking about is much grander. It's about capturing wasted water, wasted natural resources, from the west coast (up into canada) and selling it down south to so-cal, arid-zona, and mexico.

population growth will not be dictated by water, it will be dictated by jobs, and cost of living. CA has always had a huge potential, which is why people have been flooding in since the 1800s. Everybody goes to CA to seek their gold. I'm sure anybody living here for 50 years has seen remarkable change. I've been here for 20 in SF and its a different place entirely. Given that agriculture on the west coast is sold world wide, there is money available to do it right, and not kill the environment in the process.

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by jerrygar

population growth will not be dictated by water, it will be dictated by jobs, and cost of living.

Please explain how you can support jobs if theres not enuff water? Something is going to give one way or another whether you like it or not.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

Please explain how you can support jobs if theres not enuff water? Something is going to give one way or another whether you like it or not.

All of his posts for the last couple of pages directly addresses this.

You may disagree with his ideas but he has already made the case that there can be enough water without harming source regions and even potentially bringing monetary benefit to them.

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by DriveNotCommute

All of his posts for the last couple of pages directly addresses this.

You may disagree with his ideas but he has already made the case that there can be enough water without harming source regions and even potentially bringing monetary benefit to them.

Thats all fine and dandy if people float out ideas, but the state of CA is not taking the issue seriously enough. Twiddling thumbs and "praying" for rain are not acceptable. I dont doubt that the state could address the issue a multitude of ways, but from the proposals ive seen so far, they come far far short of really addressing the issue.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

Thats all fine and dandy if people float out ideas, but the state of CA is not taking the issue seriously enough. Twiddling thumbs and "praying" for rain are not acceptable. I dont doubt that the state could address the issue a multitude of ways, but from the proposals ive seen so far, they come far far short of really addressing the issue.

I can agree with that.

It's a rock and a hard place:
If the state does anything drastic people will get riled up about totalitarianism.
If it costs too much, we'll see complaints about taxation and debt.
If anybody in the state had proposed anti-drought engineering two to four decades earlier, we might have seen criticism about a boondoggle project and complaints about fear mongering liberals pushing the impossible idea about the scarcity of water and/or global warming.

In all cases, people probably wouldn't trust that there isn't corruption involved in the process one way or another, whether though poorly selected contractors or suspecting that state worker pensions are too generous.

Short term: Raise the price of water. I know others have suggested this too.

For the agriculture areas, they will just have to raise the price of food to match. I don't see why they insist on keeping prices down. Do they sell a premium product or not? No need to compete with the lowest tier: Create their own tier of higher-quality-in-smaller-quantities product and own that sector by catering to higher end grocery stores and chefs.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

Thats all fine and dandy if people float out ideas, but the state of CA is not taking the issue seriously enough. Twiddling thumbs and "praying" for rain are not acceptable. I dont doubt that the state could address the issue a multitude of ways, but from the proposals ive seen so far, they come far far short of really addressing the issue.

Two Counties are that I am aware of. OC through re-use and SD through desalination.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by DriveNotCommute

I can agree with that.

It's a rock and a hard place:
If the state does anything drastic people will get riled up about totalitarianism.
If it costs too much, we'll see complaints about taxation and debt.
If anybody in the state had proposed anti-drought engineering two to four decades earlier, we might have seen criticism about a boondoggle project and complaints about fear mongering liberals pushing the impossible idea about the scarcity of water and/or global warming.

In all cases, people probably wouldn't trust that there isn't corruption involved in the process one way or another, whether though poorly selected contractors or suspecting that state worker pensions are too generous.

Short term: Raise the price of water. I know others have suggested this too.

For the agriculture areas, they will just have to raise the price of food to match. I don't see why they insist on keeping prices down. Do they sell a premium product or not? No need to compete with the lowest tier: Create their own tier of higher-quality-in-smaller-quantities product and own that sector by catering to higher end grocery stores and chefs.

So a double price increase, tax and higher food costs?????

No, be active in cleaning water, desalination and capture of more runoff. Plenty of water available, just not being utilized properly. The technology exists.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by expatCA

So a double price increase, tax and higher food costs?????

No, be active in cleaning water, desalination and capture of more runoff. Plenty of water available, just not being utilized properly. The technology exists.

I didn't suggest any tax increase, just the water price increase although yes, when infrastructure upgrades finally begin then there will be overlap. Increasing water prices for districts that rely on the aqueduct is simply the choice with the lowest turnaround time that gives a measurable result in water savings.

Food costs should not increase by much because imports will step in to fill the demand for normal produce.

My thought was for most California farms to try shifting to the "premium" tier markets where demand is lower but profit margins are higher. By reducing their acreage they cut back on both required labor and water. The smaller operation should mean being able to focus on growing higher quality products with fewer losses in the fields. They can also better afford water delivery upgrades that waste less water this way. If they mess this up, it's on the experience and/or adaptability of the farm management and should improve within a couple of seasons.

Meanwhile source nations and states for imported produce will see a need for more workers and the experienced workers here who are no longer needed will probably have first shot at work at those locations, perhaps finding a higher quality of life due to the lower cost of living.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by DriveNotCommute

I didn't suggest any tax increase, just the water price increase although yes, when infrastructure upgrades finally begin then there will be overlap. Increasing water prices for districts that rely on the aqueduct is simply the choice with the lowest turnaround time that gives a measurable result in water savings.

Food costs should not increase by much because imports will step in to fill the demand for normal produce.

My thought was for most California farms to try shifting to the "premium" tier markets where demand is lower but profit margins are higher. By reducing their acreage they cut back on both required labor and water. The smaller operation should mean being able to focus on growing higher quality products with fewer losses in the fields. They can also better afford water delivery upgrades that waste less water this way. If they mess this up, it's on the experience and/or adaptability of the farm management and should improve within a couple of seasons.

Meanwhile source nations and states for imported produce will see a need for more workers and the experienced workers here who are no longer needed will probably have first shot at work at those locations, perhaps finding a higher quality of life due to the lower cost of living.

Unlikely to work. The "premium" market if you wish, is not large enough to support all the farms. Now what do the ones who have no market do? It isn't easy to go from almonds ( a premium market to begin with ) to ..... what? You are speaking of about 80% of the US food suppl,y of the items grown in CA, and that would be hard to replace. The workers are not likely to leave as many have homes in the area and family, leading to a drain on the State as to welfare, etc. Importing food gets expensive as well and with the current headaches at the docks getting it on shore would be a challenge as well.

Water savings, yes, but better recycling of it would be easiest, followed by desalination.We waste a LOT of water after using it. How much do we run down the drain just waiting for the shower to get warm? How much runs down the street into storms drains when it is raining and goes .... eventually back to the sea. Plenty of water just lousy management of it. CA is not alone, but as it usually does, it sets the example for the Nation and in this case a bad example.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Unlikely to work. The "premium" market if you wish, is not large enough to support all the farms. Now what do the ones who have no market do? It isn't easy to go from almonds ( a premium market to begin with ) to ..... what? You are speaking of about 80% of the US food suppl,y of the items grown in CA, and that would be hard to replace. The workers are not likely to leave as many have homes in the area and family, leading to a drain on the State as to welfare, etc. Importing food gets expensive as well and with the current headaches at the docks getting it on shore would be a challenge as well.

Water savings, yes, but better recycling of it would be easiest, followed by desalination.We waste a LOT of water after using it. How much do we run down the drain just waiting for the shower to get warm? How much runs down the street into storms drains when it is raining and goes .... eventually back to the sea. Plenty of water just lousy management of it. CA is not alone, but as it usually does, it sets the example for the Nation and in this case a bad example.

Cheese whiz, expat. First off, California doesn't begin to supply "80% of the US food supply". Not even slightly close. That's just fresh produce.

And you think the "premium market" can't support all the farms? It's working on it bubba:

A 3,400-percent increase in sales in 24 years makes organic the fastest-growing consumer food and lifestyle trend in modern history, say independent researchers looking into the industry’s strategies and marketing practices.

Organic Food Sales on the Rise

New data shows the organic food industry grew to $35.1 billion last year

American consumers are increasingly going organic.

Sales of the additive-free offerings surged 11.5% in 2013, to $35.1 billion, according to the Organic Trade Association. That represents the sector’s strongest sales in five years, and the OTA is predicting 12% growth in 2014, the website Food Navigator-USA.com reports.
Organic Food Sales Are Up