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I guess it might be the same as those that homesteaded the prairie...
They took the risk with uncertain and unpredictable forces and later day pioneers did with property tax and then the voter revolt changed things.
There are plenty of mom and pop corporations... and they go out of business all the time.
In the last few weeks a 3 store appliance chain folded and the property is for sale... several auto dealers have also closed their doors... all have been in the community at least 50 years, all owned the property but when circumstances change the heirs or widows decided to close and sell the land... and of course the buyers will have a new tax basis... same thing happened in my family...
My uncle sold a little storefront saying at 85 and in failing health he wanted out... his property tax $2500 and the new owner $9,000 and yes... he had been a corp since the 1960's... I use to play with the corp seal embosser as a kid!
What I find odd is person who is not a business suddenly defending new businesses. But then again it is not all that odd considering that you are a retired government worker collecting from a taxpayer supported pension. You also have a son who is working for the government whose salary and benefit come from tax money.
It makes sense for you fight for the tax system that you benefit from. Good for you! But please do you really expect anyone to believe that you care about new businesses being hurt by Prop 13?
I sympathize with the plight that young people face.
Sympathy doesn't pay the bills.
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I'd like to think that they too could sympathize with the plight that senior citizens face. We boomers got problems of our own--and I hate to say but the underlying theme is always the same: money sucking government.
Money-sucking government by and for the boomers. The entitled generation. Boomers' problems are of their own making: spendthrifts who didn't save a dime, and voted in scores of no-math politicians at the local, state and federal level. Ballooning unaffordable pensions, California's ridiculous cost-of-living, grossly unfair Prop. 13 (which penalizes the young and young families), Iraq war cost trillions, yet boomers didn't pay a dime for it (and gave us that idiot Bush 43): all the result of greedy boomers.
Thankfully, boomers' time is just about up, as their numbers start dwindling and the younger generations will have political power. Can't come soon enough. Clear out the selfish detritus of boomers' warped thinking.
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We don't need a generational war on top of all the other grief we have to handle. We are the people! We have to accommodate all of us.
The old have been waging generational war against the young for some time now. Grossly inflated benefits for the old. Social Security and Medicare payments going to geezers, in amounts that far exceed what they paid in. Intergenerational stealing, and even worse, all this spending has simply been added to the massive debt tab incurred by boomers. Boomers who've been running all levels of government for decades -- and most certainly when debts exploded at the state and federal level.
How did we get to the United States being $20 trillion in debt? Boomers, that's how. Nay, the generational war is here. Has been for some time. And it is my fervent hope that when Millennials are the majority, they vote to slash Social Security benefits in half, repeal Proposition 13, and force boomers to pay their fare share. Can't afford it? You have my sympathy.
The Boomers will soon be gone and then we will own it...
Sounds like a plan.
As to philosophical differences it is of value to know just how much mis-information there is and especially on California's Democratic Initiative process that made Prop 13 a reality...
I never would have imagined democracy would be on trail and the heart of Prop 13 is the requirement for voter approval for new assessments... imagine that???
In the spirit of the old proverb... may you also be so fortunate to know what it is to be old one day...
Sympathy doesn't pay the bills.
Money-sucking government by and for the boomers. The entitled generation. Boomers' problems are of their own making: spendthrifts who didn't save a dime, and voted in scores of no-math politicians at the local, state and federal level. Ballooning unaffordable pensions, California's ridiculous cost-of-living, grossly unfair Prop. 13 (which penalizes the young and young families), Iraq war cost trillions, yet boomers didn't pay a dime for it (and gave us that idiot Bush 43): all the result of greedy boomers.
Thankfully, boomers' time is just about up, as their numbers start dwindling and the younger generations will have political power. Can't come soon enough. Clear out the selfish detritus of boomers' warped thinking.
The old have been waging generational war against the young for some time now. Grossly inflated benefits for the old. Social Security and Medicare payments going to geezers, in amounts that far exceed what they paid in. Intergenerational stealing, and even worse, all this spending has simply been added to the massive debt tab incurred by boomers. Boomers who've been running all levels of government for decades -- and most certainly when debts exploded at the state and federal level.
How did we get to the United States being $20 trillion in debt? Boomers, that's how. Nay, the generational war is here. Has been for some time. And it is my fervent hope that when Millennials are the majority, they vote to slash Social Security benefits in half, repeal Proposition 13, and force boomers to pay their fare share. Can't afford it? You have my sympathy.
When boomers are gone millennials will have taken their place and they will be fighting to keep SS and medicare exactly as baby boomers have.
In the spirit of the old proverb... may you also be so fortunate to know what it is to be old one day...
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Originally Posted by 2sleepy
When boomers are gone millennials will have taken their place and they will be fighting to keep SS and medicare exactly as baby boomers have.
Rather than respond to the venomous post above these, I'm going with these two posts.
Just remember that not every young person will be old some day. Only the lucky ones will survive to become old and the rest will die young.
I suggest to all young people that you should conduct yourselves considering the fact that you may become old some day, and upon becoming old you may find the shoe is on the other foot.
"As you sow so, you shall reap." You may end up in the future eating the poison you are spreading today.
Money-sucking government by and for the boomers. The entitled generation. Boomers' problems are of their own making: spendthrifts who didn't save a dime, and voted in scores of no-math politicians at the local, state and federal level. Ballooning unaffordable pensions, California's ridiculous cost-of-living, grossly unfair Prop. 13 (which penalizes the young and young families), Iraq war cost trillions, yet boomers didn't pay a dime for it (and gave us that idiot Bush 43): all the result of greedy boomers.
Thankfully, boomers' time is just about up, as their numbers start dwindling and the younger generations will have political power. Can't come soon enough. Clear out the selfish detritus of boomers' warped thinking.
The old have been waging generational war against the young for some time now. Grossly inflated benefits for the old. Social Security and Medicare payments going to geezers, in amounts that far exceed what they paid in. Intergenerational stealing, and even worse, all this spending has simply been added to the massive debt tab incurred by boomers. Boomers who've been running all levels of government for decades -- and most certainly when debts exploded at the state and federal level.
How did we get to the United States being $20 trillion in debt? Boomers, that's how. Nay, the generational war is here. Has been for some time. And it is my fervent hope that when Millennials are the majority, they vote to slash Social Security benefits in half, repeal Proposition 13, and force boomers to pay their fare share. Can't afford it? You have my sympathy.
Maybe you forgot one key thing is that if you remove Pop 13, you get to buy a house but your property tax will go up much higher than with Prop 13. You will be in the same boat and will come here and complain that it's grossly unfair. Also it's against CD TOS to have generation war. And here another thing from your post, millenniasl will vote for liberals Democrats and they will not cut Social Security. So either way you lose.
Last edited by NewbieHere; 04-23-2017 at 12:08 PM..
That's an odd thing for a free market advocate to say. Businesses currently benefiting from prop 13 are artificially enjoying a huge advantage over new businesses, how can that possibly be ok with you?
Another EXACTLY. (Can't rep you again.)
They may call it what they like, a loophole, "a magnet as an incentive for business" (come on), but the fact is that it's a means of avoidance that commercial property owners have, which residential property owners do not. And I disagree with the idea that any person can incorporate, because there are ramifications that are NOT beneficial, but I've expressed that earlier on this thread and won't repeat myself.
State taxes property based on physical details (lot sized, sq. ft., zoning, income production). I usually give an example of a 3 bed, 2 bath home one a 5000 sq. ft. lot. That home would be taxed $2000 or so adjusted for inflation each year. This flat rate would not tax people out of their homes. Someone with a basic cookie-cutter 3 bed, 2 bath in Fresno would pay the state the same amount as someone in Aliso Viejo. Businesses would pay property taxes to the state again based on details of the property, not the value. Two large warehouses and office suites with identical details in Fresno should be taxed by the state at the same amount as it would in Aliso Viejo.
The counties and cities should then be able to set their property value based property taxes based on their own voting/representative power. If taxes are high in Aliso Viejo, it is only because voters in Orange county and residents in Aliso Viejo made a decision to make them that high. Voters also can make their community as much or as little business friendly as they want to.
This solution gives people the power to control their taxes and also gives municipalities the ability to raise as much or as little revenue as they see fit. it also restricts the state from severely taxing a basic home in different regions of the state JUST because of its value. Why should the state get to tax a larger amount for a 3 bed, 2 bath based on value even though the state services to 3 bed, 2 bath homes are about the same across the state. Businesses cannot use loop holes in the law because their taxes are flat at a state level and controlled by the people at the local level.
I think the current system is fair. Please don't fall for that "it's not fair" divide tactic used to pit one group against another. This Article was written by a college professor who is paid by taxpayers. He, like others who get paid with tax money, just wants more money in the hand of the government, money from your wallet.
"First, it’s shifted more of the property tax to California homeowners. Back in 1978, corporations paid 44 percent of all property taxes and homeowners paid 56 percent. Now, after exploiting this loophole for years, corporations pay only 28 percent of property taxes, while homeowners pick up 72 percent of the tab."
Looks like they are fighting for home owners, right? Wrong. Does anyone believe that after they collect more money from corporations, they would lower your property taxes? Not in a million years. Clearly this isn't about fairness for home owners. It's just another money grab.
The two democrats who sponsored the bill said they thought it was unfair to home owners. Really? If they care that much about home owners, why didn't they sponsor a bill that would lower property taxes for home owners? Again, they don't care about you, or fairness, or anything like that. All they care about is how much more money they can take from you.
It's all about greed. School funding, corporate assessment, fairness, the kids, road repairs, etc. are just smoke and mirrors.
Last edited by davidt1; 04-23-2017 at 02:02 PM..
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