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Not really, since humans are driven by desire as well as survival instinct. The problem is our consumerism-oriented culture made too strong a connection between possession and happiness, so here we have a growth so strong it is near unsustainable.
Heh. Not sure I follow your distinction. Right, consumer capitalism has conditioned the public to cravenly, addictively consume all manner of products ... including a dazzling plethora of entirely unnecessary products, and experiences. Our attraction to, well, crap, is shallow as hell.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe
I hate the term "gentrification." It's very prejudiced, in my opinion, because it equals - white-ification. Think about it. What is the "gentry?" White people. And so, white, entitled people are moving into an otherwise, non-white, non-gentry (or wealthy) area.
Why should that be celebrated? Now, if those who are displaced - being non-white, non-wealthy, tenants or property owners, actually profit in a way that is willing and fair, then fine.
But, it seriously irks me when white folk start waxing poetic about gentrification, without calling it what it really is - white folk who decide they want to live where the non-white people live, and then push them out, while saying it's a great thing.
This is interesting that you would call it white-fication. Here in Atlanta there were billboards which simply said "Black People are being pushed out of Atlanta" which was in reference to gentrification.
That would seem to support what you are saying.
But I saw an interview on youtube and the person being interviewed had been buying and rehabbing homes in Atlanta. When he put them up for sale he said only the white people bought them. When Black people looked they weren't interested. They wanted to move to the suburbs with newer homes and stores instead. He tried to explain that gentrification was happening and that the areas were getting better and that they should stay because they would see a lot of appreciation as well as support the community. He said in the end out of all the homes he sold, not one black person ever bought, just the white people.
He thought it was interesting in that now that home values had really risen and that people who bought there were making a lot of money that all of a sudden black people were complaining about how unjust the system was and that gentrification was forcing them out. But in his experience they had the opportunity and passed. The person interviewed was black himself and couldn't understand why not one of the homes in historically black neighborhoods was ever bought by black people. They had all passed on a golden opportunity.
So is it really prejudiced when non white people had the opportunity and passed on it?
Here in Atlanta I tried to buy a house in an area I though was going to gentrify. I had just missed out and it was a black couple that sold to a white couple. I got to talk with them and asked if they were aware of the changes coming and why didn't they hang on. They explained they made money and could buy nicer newer house elsewhere and I knew the area they were going to.
Since then the area they went to probably went up 50 to 100%. The place they sold went up about 250% and is really going to pop over the next few years.
You can't fault them for taking a profit now, buying a cheaper, bigger, newer house in a poor area and having money left over. They could have stayed, but it was a much older run down house also in a poor area, albeit an area that popped.
Heh. Not sure I follow your distinction. Right, consumer capitalism has conditioned the public to cravenly, addictively consume all manner of products ... including a dazzling plethora of entirely unnecessary products, and experiences. Our attraction to, well, crap, is shallow as hell.
The issue is many people buy things without thinking. For me when I desire something it means I know I will really enjoy it or need it when I have it, but our consumer culture advocates that people should buy things as soon as they feel the urge to buy, so we have people owning things without knowing why they want to buy and the opportunity to pick up items in mint conditions in yard sale or on curb.
The issue is many people buy things without thinking. For me when I desire something it means I know I will really enjoy it or need it when I have it, but our consumer culture advocates that people should buy things as soon as they feel the urge to buy, so we have people owning things without knowing why they want to buy and the opportunity to pick up items in mint conditions in yard sale or on curb.
Yes. As I said: “pretty shallow.”
Not sure if you’re still trying to make some distinction otherwise?
Not sure if you’re still trying to make some distinction otherwise?
What I am trying to say is that without consumerism influence Americans' want/desire would be fine. I agree American consumerism is shallow, but even without consumerism Americans would still be wanting/desiring many things like people in other countries. However, we would also less likely to make wasteful spending and more likely to build a sustainable society.
I hate the term "gentrification." It's very prejudiced, in my opinion, because it equals - white-ification. Think about it. What is the "gentry?" White people. And so, white, entitled people are moving into an otherwise, non-white, non-gentry (or wealthy) area.
Why should that be celebrated? Now, if those who are displaced - being non-white, non-wealthy, tenants or property owners, actually profit in a way that is willing and fair, then fine.
But, it seriously irks me when white folk start waxing poetic about gentrification, without calling it what it really is - white folk who decide they want to live where the non-white people live, and then push them out, while saying it's a great thing.
Since most of the US is white what did you expect? No one seemed to mind when blacks were pushed out of Boyle Heights by Latinos.
This is interesting that you would call it white-fication. Here in Atlanta there were billboards which simply said "Black People are being pushed out of Atlanta" which was in reference to gentrification.
That would seem to support what you are saying.
But I saw an interview on youtube and the person being interviewed had been buying and rehabbing homes in Atlanta. When he put them up for sale he said only the white people bought them. When Black people looked they weren't interested. They wanted to move to the suburbs with newer homes and stores instead. He tried to explain that gentrification was happening and that the areas were getting better and that they should stay because they would see a lot of appreciation as well as support the community. He said in the end out of all the homes he sold, not one black person ever bought, just the white people.
He thought it was interesting in that now that home values had really risen and that people who bought there were making a lot of money that all of a sudden black people were complaining about how unjust the system was and that gentrification was forcing them out. But in his experience they had the opportunity and passed. The person interviewed was black himself and couldn't understand why not one of the homes in historically black neighborhoods was ever bought by black people. They had all passed on a golden opportunity.
So is it really prejudiced when non white people had the opportunity and passed on it?
Here in Atlanta I tried to buy a house in an area I though was going to gentrify. I had just missed out and it was a black couple that sold to a white couple. I got to talk with them and asked if they were aware of the changes coming and why didn't they hang on. They explained they made money and could buy nicer newer house elsewhere and I knew the area they were going to.
Since then the area they went to probably went up 50 to 100%. The place they sold went up about 250% and is really going to pop over the next few years.
You can't fault them for taking a profit now, buying a cheaper, bigger, newer house in a poor area and having money left over. They could have stayed, but it was a much older run down house also in a poor area, albeit an area that popped.
You saw some Youtube video. I have a hard time believing that you really believe that the only people who would want to live in that neighborhood are white people. Give me a break.
In Atlanta, what is the disparity between the incomes of the majority of black buyers vs. white buyers? Now, let's look at that percentage vs. who bids on these homes in the "gentrified" neighborhoods, that used to be all black neighborhoods.
So, let's say in Atlanta, the black population that makes, say, $100,000/year vs. whites who make that much, are the baseline for bidding on homes in these gentrifying neighborhoods.
And then, the result is that a very small percentage of blacks actually bid on these homes vs. white folk.
Now, do we assume that black buyers don't want these homes - or that 99.999% of blacks wouldn't qualify, therefore, they don't bother to bid?
This happens all over the U.S. The old neighborhoods close to downtown were the neighborhoods the whites didn't want. The whites wanted to buy in suburbs outside of town. Then, the whites want to live closer to their jobs and to buy property that is cheaper than the prices that the suburbs have started demanding.
So, they start deciding they'd invest in the cheaper black neighborhoods, hoping they get white-ified. While calling it the supposed politically correct term "gentrified."
Then, they start bidding the prices up to the point that most blacks can't even buy into the neighborhoods they historically could afford.
It's really scandalous.
But, in my mind, the term gentrified is abhorrent. It really means white-ified. Let's call it what it is.
...
staying ahead so you don't end up like Detroit, Pittsburgh or any dead/dying one industry city.
You should look into Pittsburgh a lot closer. It's been revitalizing for years now- technology from Carnegie Mellon, a medical-educational complex that is growing and world-known, beautiful hills and ethnic neighborhoods, great food, excellent public transportation, and a lot of affordable housing following the end of the steel industry decades ago.
I've got no skin in the game about Pittsburgh. Just tired of hearing the same old cant about its failure while it's becoming a great urban success story.
In the 1960s, sociologist John McKnight coined the term "redlining" to describe the discriminatory practice of fencing off areas where banks would avoid investments based on community demographics.[8] During the heyday of redlining, the areas most frequently discriminated against were black inner city neighborhoods. For example, in Atlanta in the 1980s, a Pulitzer Prize-winning series of articles by investigative reporter Bill Dedman showed that banks would often lend to lower-income whites but not to middle-income or upper-income blacks.[9] The use of blacklists is a related mechanism also used by redliners to keep track of groups, areas, and people that the discriminating party feels should be denied business or aid or other transactions. In the academic literature, redlining falls under the broader category of credit rationing.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe
You saw some Youtube video. I have a hard time believing that you really believe that the only people who would want to live in that neighborhood are white people. Give me a break.
In Atlanta, what is the disparity between the incomes of the majority of black buyers vs. white buyers? Now, let's look at that percentage vs. who bids on these homes in the "gentrified" neighborhoods, that used to be all black neighborhoods.
So, let's say in Atlanta, the black population that makes, say, $100,000/year vs. whites who make that much, are the baseline for bidding on homes in these gentrifying neighborhoods.
And then, the result is that a very small percentage of blacks actually bid on these homes vs. white folk.
Now, do we assume that black buyers don't want these homes - or that 99.999% of blacks wouldn't qualify, therefore, they don't bother to bid?
This happens all over the U.S. The old neighborhoods close to downtown were the neighborhoods the whites didn't want. The whites wanted to buy in suburbs outside of town. Then, the whites want to live closer to their jobs and to buy property that is cheaper than the prices that the suburbs have started demanding.
So, they start deciding they'd invest in the cheaper black neighborhoods, hoping they get white-ified. While calling it the supposed politically correct term "gentrified."
Then, they start bidding the prices up to the point that most blacks can't even buy into the neighborhoods they historically could afford.
It's really scandalous.
But, in my mind, the term gentrified is abhorrent. It really means white-ified. Let's call it what it is.
There was a thread about the billboards in the Atlanta forum and that is where I saw the link for the youtube video.
I can't help it if you have some kind of guilt complex about white people. People like you are actually the problem trying to make everything about race. I was merely stating what I saw in the video. That was one mans experience in flipping houses. Even some of the black people say it is a problem that when some of them achieve any kind of success that they leave the community to go to what they believe is a better area in the burbs rather than stay and reinvest in the area and wait for improvement. Part of it is the schools in Atlanta are mostly really bad and they want the better schools in the burbs now, not after their kids are grown. That being said there are plenty of black people that have money investing in gentrified areas. I meet them every month at a real estate meet up. The fact is the demographics still show a high percentage of black people owning properties in gentrified areas. Some poorer black people get pushed out, but it is by investors of all colors, not just the evil white people as you would have everyone believe.
As far as asking me what the disparity is, since you seem to know what it is already, why don't you tell us?
Oops, You don't know.
You really ought to just post things you actually know about instead of spouting out things that pop into your head. Like your post about the horrible weather in Atlanta where you claimed 80% of the time it was jungle humidity or sleet and snow. You got called out on that post not just by me but another poster ( both of us have lived in Atlanta, you have not) and you never responded because you knew your post had no basis. Your credibility just keeps slipping.
People will always want to move to an area closer to work-race has nothing to do with this. Being that there are more whites in the country than blacks, it only makes sense that a neighborhood might have more whites than blacks.
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