Prop 13 (megatopic) (Vista, Bell, Paradise: homeowners insurance, standard of living, oil)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

You can also buy a very reasonably priced home up in Susanville.

Whether you can find a suitable job up there is a different question, and if you can't work from home, it's a loooooong commute.

I don't think that there is a shortage of jobs in Sacramento, and if you work in the Bay Area Solano County housing prices aren't out of reach for most home buyers.

[outspokenaz]

CA property taxes are a ponzi scheme. Older homeowners pay significantly less in property taxes because newer homeowners pay more than their fair share. Like all ponzi schemes this will continue as long as there's growth. Once people stop going along with this there will be a crash as the system is not sustainable.


In Arizona I bought my house in 2013, I paid $900 in property taxes. This year I will pay $1,050. My neighbors pay a similar amount. No one is getting exploited like in CA. You dont need to screw over your neighbor to have fair property taxes.


I thought about moving to CA in 2013, but decided I would be happier in Arizona because it's cheaper, and simply in CA people are very selfish. I would not fit in. Most of the people in this thread think it's ok to screw over your neighbor if it benefits you. That's why I am not in CA. I made the right choice.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by outspokenaz

CA property taxes are a ponzi scheme. Older homeowners pay significantly less in property taxes because newer homeowners pay more than their fair share. Like all ponzi schemes this will continue as long as there's growth. Once people stop going along with this there will be a crash as the system is not sustainable.


In Arizona I bought my house in 2013, I paid $900 in property taxes. This year I will pay $1,050. My neighbors pay a similar amount. No one is getting exploited like in CA. You dont need to screw over your neighbor to have fair property taxes.


I thought about moving to CA in 2013, but decided I would be happier in Arizona because it's cheaper, and simply in CA people are very selfish. I would not fit in. Most of the people in this thread think it's ok to screw over your neighbor if it benefits you. That's why I am not in CA. I made the right choice.

People forget that when people bought "back when" they were making a fraction of what people are today. So, the amount they paid then was equivalent to what people are paying now. With prop 13 yours cannot skyrocket so you'll still be able to live in your house in 30 years. By the time most people are 65 they are on a fixed budget and outrageous property taxes drive them out of their houses and usually out of the State.

[luv4horses]

You all are missing the point that if long termers, with lower taxes, are not paying an “average” rate, then newcomers are actually paying their (the longtermers) share. So if I buy my first home today, having saved 10 to 20 years for my down payment, then the oldtimers are getting me to pay substantially more for both the tax and the home. The house cost is 3 to 30 times what oldtimers paid.

And the oldtimers have tons of equity. Why not devise something that lets oldtimers simply pay the same tax rate but be allowed to postpone some of it until they sell the house if they can’t afford the taxes?

[Dave Coe]

Originally Posted by outspokenaz

CA property taxes are a ponzi scheme. Older homeowners pay significantly less in property taxes because newer homeowners pay more than their fair share. Like all ponzi schemes this will continue as long as there's growth. Once people stop going along with this there will be a crash as the system is not sustainable.


In Arizona I bought my house in 2013, I paid $900 in property taxes. This year I will pay $1,050. My neighbors pay a similar amount. No one is getting exploited like in CA. You dont need to screw over your neighbor to have fair property taxes.


I thought about moving to CA in 2013, but decided I would be happier in Arizona because it's cheaper, and simply in CA people are very selfish. I would not fit in. Most of the people in this thread think it's ok to screw over your neighbor if it benefits you. That's why I am not in CA. I made the right choice.

Agreed.

"As an alternative to the failed prop 15 for commercial property taxation, I would propose a tax on underutilized properties such as empty storefronts, parking lots, and vacant lots, such as Andrew Yang’s mayoral campaign proposal to tax vacant lots."

https://robertstark.substack.com/p/p...perty-taxation

[Dave Coe]

"As for reforming split role in residential property taxation, rather than scraping prop 13 protections, I would proposed a progressive incremental tax increase on the amount that is currently deducted from market rate value. For instance I would keep protections on homes worth less than $1.4 Million then a gradual increase divided up into brackets starting at a 4% annual tax from the amount deducted, gradually increased to an estimated full repeal of prop 13 protections for homes worth over $12 Million."

https://robertstark.substack.com/p/p...perty-taxation

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by luv4horses

You all are missing the point that if long termers, with lower taxes, are not paying an “average” rate, then newcomers are actually paying their (the longtermers) share. So if I buy my first home today, having saved 10 to 20 years for my down payment, then the oldtimers are getting me to pay substantially more for both the tax and the home. The house cost is 3 to 30 times what oldtimers paid.

And the oldtimers have tons of equity. Why not devise something that lets oldtimers simply pay the same tax rate but be allowed to postpone some of it until they sell the house if they can’t afford the taxes?

So, in 30 years you want YOUR property tax to be high and keep rising while on a fixed income? Let's be honest here. Say I made 20 grand in 1970 and retired at 65 with a small pension you want me to keep paying higher taxes even though my income is fixed? Because this will be you when you are 65 most likely.

You will (hopefully) get old some day. I know I want to.

You will also build equity. I know someone who increased by 150 grand in 2 years right now.

Prop 13 is the SAME for everyone today. Right now. The only difference was the list price back then vs now. Guess what, the income was different, way different back then vs now. It will look that different in 30 years from now. But hey, tax yourselves out of your home if that's what you want. That's what it appears you want anyway but with some small satisfaction old timers get taxed out of their homes now.

[mgforshort]

In Arizona I bought my house in 2013, I paid $900 in property taxes. This year I will pay $1,050. My neighbors pay a similar amount. No one is getting exploited like in CA. You dont need to screw over your neighbor to have fair property taxes.


In the better parts of California the $ 1,050 you pay for property tax might / might not cover the taxes on the garage.

Our current prop. tax is $ 2,800, purchase date 2015. Very old, 2 bedroom house in the poor part of California. Had we bought it 20 years earlier the tax would be still higher than $ 1,050.

The problem with our Prop. 13 in California is that while yearly increases are limited to 2% of the previous year, the tax still could go much higher. For example, if the local high school could use a swimming pool and a new gymnasium with marble floors (sarcasm) they start a bond measure, which is guaranteed to pass ( it's for the CHILDREN !) and next year we pay another $ 200 on top of the 2% increase. And if the police department needs a bigger building, comes another bond, boom, pay $ 130 more the following year.

If the tax we pay wouldn't be wasted on feel-good projects and bloated pensions we could avoid the financing by bonds, but that is not the California way, sadly.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by luv4horses

You all are missing the point that if long termers, with lower taxes, are not paying an “average” rate, then newcomers are actually paying their (the longtermers) share.

But that IS the point. Those "longtermers" paid property taxes for their entire adult lives. They were once "newcomers," and you will at some point be one of the "longtermers."

[luv4horses]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

So, in 30 years you want YOUR property tax to be high and keep rising while on a fixed income? Let's be honest here. Say I made 20 grand in 1970 and retired at 65 with a small pension you want me to keep paying higher taxes even though my income is fixed? Because this will be you when you are 65 most likely.

You will (hopefully) get old some day. I know I want to.

You will also build equity. I know someone who increased by 150 grand in 2 years right now.

Prop 13 is the SAME for everyone today. Right now. The only difference was the list price back then vs now. Guess what, the income was different, way different back then vs now. It will look that different in 30 years from now. But hey, tax yourselves out of your home if that's what you want. That's what it appears you want anyway but with some small satisfaction old timers get taxed out of their homes now.

That’s why I suggest for hardship cases the tax be postponed until the house is sold. Sort of like using the house as collateral. With all that equity it’s a good bet for the tax board. And guess what. Not everyone moving to Calif has 30 yrs ahead of them.