Prop 13 (megatopic) (Oakland: to live in, education, investment property)

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The inherent beauty of Prop 13 is applies equally to all... a few short paragraphs replaced volumes of tax code and a cadre of Assessor staff.

Part of the pitch way back when is Prop 13 subsequent Props prevents selling the family farm or closing the family business due to taxes...

Actually I am one of those who voted for P13. But it is done better in Nevada. I do not think there is any rational reason for a commercial property to be covered by 13. If your business is sensitive enough that an increase in property tax puts you out of business it was likely inevitable.

I would also like to see the tax rate of change sufficient that it actually can close in the presence of the inflation rate. What we effectively did was decrease the property taxes of long term residents. See no reason that is a good thing.

I fail to see why you think the assessors staff was limited. All it did was move them to tracking how it would be if no P13.

[Ultrarunner]

Alameda County did not replace attrition for years... others were reassigned.

One of the people I knew casually... said the passage and subsequent implementation really impacted his office...

Again... I was too young to vote at the time it was implemented.

As one paying $8800 when I bought compared to my sellers paying $1200... it did not bother me in the least...

I do fully intend to have the lower rate in 30 or 40 years.

The ones that really made it are those that bought here 2009-12... bigger home, newer home, etc and lower price...

It was hard to swallow at the time but I did get over it... as each transfer stands on it's merit...

Still, I look out the window and see the newcomers on the block a 50% larger home and 45 years newer and larger lot paying a little less than I do... but such is life.

Had I been smart I should have bought that foreclosure and moved in myself... but too many things going on at the time.

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I can say without equivocation that none of my neighbors has had a child in the public schools in many decades... most it has been easily 50 years.

About 50% of the budget is for public education... so here we are still paying for schools with tax dollars without any hope of receiving any service.

Neighborhoods with good schools are usually better maintained, have lower crime, and the homes tend to be worth more. My kids haven't been to school in 20 years, and yet we used the increase equity in our home to buy an investment property and have been rewarded handsomely.

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

What we effectively did was decrease the property taxes of long term residents. See no reason that is a good thing.

Well, you're entitled to your subjective opinion and that's all it is. Plenty of people think it's great thing. Especially those that don't want more income inequality. Prop 13 has always been the great neutralizer. That's why I love it.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Well, you're entitled to your subjective opinion and that's all it is. Plenty of people think it's great thing. Especially those that don't want more income inequality. Prop 13 has always been the great neutralizer. That's why I love it.

Nothing neutral about it. Simply favors those in place a long time outrageously over the new comer.

And I do not object to that except it should fade away in a couple of decades and should not favor commercial property.

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Nothing neutral about it. Simply favors those in place a long time outrageously over the new comer.

And I do not object to that except it should fade away in a couple of decades and should not favor commercial property.

Yeah, I don't think so. My senior citizen neighbors never had the opportunity to make the money me and my wife did, so I'm fine with it continuing as is. Nothing outrageous at all about it. I'm happy not to be surrounded by the top 1-5% of income earners. But I understand there are those that think income inequality is a good thing.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Yeah, I don't think so. My senior citizen neighbors never had the opportunity to make the money me and my wife did, so I'm fine with it continuing as is. Nothing outrageous at all about it. I'm happy not to be surrounded by the top 1-5% of income earners. But I understand their are those that think income inequality is a good thing.

But I am likely older than your senior neighbors and have had no more opportunity than they to make big money. So if I want to move back to the home I left two decades ago in OC I get the same low tax rate they have? No. Oh so how is it fair to me that I pay 8 or 10 times as much as your senior neighbor even though I am more senior and no better off?

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

But I am likely older than your senior neighbors and have had no more opportunity than they to make big money. So if I want to move back to the home I left two decades ago in OC I get the same low tax rate they have? No. Oh so how is it fair to me that I pay 8 or 10 times as much as your senior neighbor even though I am more senior and no better off?

That was your choice to move and I suspect you benefited handsomely. If you intended to move back, you should have been smarter about it and just rented out your place. That's what most people I know have done.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Nothing neutral about it. Simply favors those in place a long time outrageously over the new comer.

It does not favor them as the new buyers benefit from all the taxes the old owners paid. That is inequality. They get free benefits. They do not pay for the original cost of the roads, schools,Parks, City and County Buildings, etc, just anything new and they pay at the same rate as the old owners. If they do not like paying more each year due to the property value rise when they bought, don't buy there. No one makes anyone do so, it is a choice.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

But I am likely older than your senior neighbors and have had no more opportunity than they to make big money. So if I want to move back to the home I left two decades ago in OC I get the same low tax rate they have? No. Oh so how is it fair to me that I pay 8 or 10 times as much as your senior neighbor even though I am more senior and no better off?

It is fair because you left.



Now you do not have to move back. After all, you pay more for a lot of things than you did in the past.It is a choice.