California Collapsing (Los Angeles, Glendora, Empire: truck rental, renters, loan)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

Interesting.... for someone who argues that most wage earners are "rent-seekers", letting retirees maintain 100k salaries is fine with you?

There is nothing wrong with a $100k/year retirement package in and of itself. I don't know the details and they were not stated.

Originally Posted by chuck22b

The median household income in LA is around 53k (2007)? and 60k (2000) for Vernon. So, I guess 100k for the least productive of society is perfectly fine (barring nicet4's data is accurate)?

Vernon is an industrial city, talking about its median household income is silly. They are the least productive society? Huh? Oh, are we on the "city workers do nothing" thing now? Whether the pay or retirement package makes sense depends on the details. Since I don't know the details, I'm not going to say whether its appropriate or not.

My point was that contrasting Vernon's population with its city spending is rather silly. Its not a normal city. I'm making no claim about the pay, other than that $100k in Los Angeles does not afford you luxury, rather a normal middle-class lifestyle.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by chuck22b

So, although base property tax rates may be lower than some States, in order to actually improve on infrastructure, schools, fire, police, services, etc., etc. (what property taxes are intended for), additional direct assessments are levied onto properties essentially neutralizing Prop 13's effect.

This is just one aspect of property taxes and most communities do not pay anything beyond the property tax. Regardless, its not that relevant to the points I was making. The state needs a less volatile source of revenue, property tax is the obvious choice. Unless the state wants to be a gigantic Casino it needs to do something to stabilize its real estate market, the speculators need to get a kick in the rear. A raised property tax would do just that.

The fact that some McMansion community has a Mello-roos does not change any of this.

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by user_id

This is just one aspect of property taxes and most communities do not pay anything beyond the property tax. Regardless, its not that relevant to the points I was making. The state needs a less volatile source of revenue, property tax is the obvious choice. Unless the state wants to be a gigantic Casino it needs to do something to stabilize its real estate market, the speculators need to get a kick in the rear. A raised property tax would do just that.

The fact that some McMansion community has a Mello-roos does not change any of this.

There's more than just Mello-Roos, developer fees, Real Estate transfer fees, which are mostly on developing properties or Real Estate exchanges.

There are other special assessments such as school bonds, vector control, community college, lighting districts, water districts, business districts, parks districts, infrastructure bonds, etc., etc. levied on numerous communities. This could add close to an extra half point to a full point to property tax assessments.

According to City-Data (2004):
Los Angeles County Special Assessments totaled: 96.2 million in special assessments, a close to 5% of all property tax assessed: 1.96 billion.

San Bernardino County Special Assessments totaled: 26 million which is about 12% of all property tax assessed: 211 million.

Orange County Special Assessments totaled: 47 million which is about 12.5% of all property taxes assessed: 376 million.

Anyhow, basically, Prop 13 wasn't as effective as the Jarvis group purported. Instead of raising base levels and actually improving cities/education/etc. as a whole, special assessments have taken place to fund improvements where property taxes have been lacking and should have before. If you live in a place without any additional assessments on top of property taxes... there's a very good chance services and improvements have been subsidized by somewhere else. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much if any improvements since base property taxes haven't kept up with inflation because of Prop 13 (ie less and less funding every year).

Fred Foldvary / Circumventing California's Proposition 13 for the Public Collection of Rent (http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/foldvary-fred_circumventing-proposition-13.html - broken link)
http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/kest...pecial2008.pdf

Of course for those who have zero additional assessments, and are happy with the services and infrastructure, congratulations... but for those who are already being levied more with special assessments, No, we don't need additional base property taxes to fund services and improvements... we've already been paying for them. If you want better service, improvements, etc... then pay for them (petition your local government, county, for a "special" assessment to improve the streets, schools, etc.)... don't ask others to.

As far as rabid RE speculation? I think they would speculate regardless if property taxes were higher. It's a matter of financing and amount of skin in the game. If you are able to buy properties with zero down, interest only, no doc loans, regardless of the property taxes speculators will speculate on RE price appreciation. High Mello Roos didn't stop speculators from buying into new communities so I really doubt an increase in property taxes for everybody would do anything either.

-chuck22b

[chuck22b]

Originally Posted by user_id

There is nothing wrong with a $100k/year retirement package in and of itself. I don't know the details and they were not stated.


Vernon is an industrial city, talking about its median household income is silly. They are the least productive society? Huh? Oh, are we on the "city workers do nothing" thing now? Whether the pay or retirement package makes sense depends on the details. Since I don't know the details, I'm not going to say whether its appropriate or not.

My point was that contrasting Vernon's population with its city spending is rather silly. Its not a normal city. I'm making no claim about the pay, other than that $100k in Los Angeles does not afford you luxury, rather a normal middle-class lifestyle.

True, I don't know the circumstances or the details. But, in the most part, 100k pensions are a dying breed and should be eliminated in both public and private service. I guess you can't argue about the auto union members that have defined benefit plans either (you don't know the details or circumstances).

As far as unproductive.... I'm talking in terms of what they contribute to society since they are retired vs. working.

-chuck22b

[jdrtx]

Here's a list of "Sanctuary Cities". How that working out for you?


California
Bell Gardens, CA
City of Industry, CA
City of Commerce, CA
Cypress, CA
Davis CA
Downey, CA
Fresno, CA (6/13/07 Congressional Research Service)
Lakewood, CA
Los Angeles, CA (Congressional Research Service)
Long Beach, CA
Lynwood, CA
Maywood, CA
Montebello, CA
National City, CA
Norwalk, CA
Oakland, CA (Added 8-27-07. Source: 4/25/07 story by KCBS 740 AM. Link here.)
Paramount, CA
Pico Rivera, CA
So. Gate, CA
San Bernardino, Ca. (Added 6/7/07, reader submitted / [SIZE=1] [/SIZE][SIZE=3]9/5/08 Listing disputed by the city administration* See addl.notes)[/SIZE]
San Diego, CA (Congressional Research Service)
Santa Cruz, CA (Added 5/30/07, documented by KSBW news)
San Francisco, CA (Congressional Research Service)
San Jose, CA (6/13/07 Congressional Research Service)
Santa Maria, CA (11-18-08 Submitted research from local activist/ Listing disputed by the city administration)
Sonoma County, CA (Congressional Research Service)
Vernon, CA
Watsonville, CA (Added 5/30/07, documented by KSBW news)
Wilmington, CA

[goodbyehollywood]

Escalating property taxes and reducing entitlement programs, which are rampantly abused, would solve a lot of CA's problems. While Prop 13 has always been controversial, its champions tend to be those who benefit most from it. Repealing Prop 13 or enacting a stepped-up escalator or gradual phase-out would bring taxes in line with real estate values and level the playing field. Over time, it would realign home values with income and help run-down areas revitalize.

There is no easy fix to CA's problems. The solution will be painful and unpopular, and people will be hurt. Either taxes will rise, services will be cut or pensions will be scaled back or, most likely, it will take a combination of all three to bring CA back from the abyss. There have been too many takers, too few givers and too much entitlement for too long. Californians voted for change. Let's see it!

[Brian.Pearson]

Originally Posted by k374

A good read:

California Collapsing | Money and Markets: Free Investment Email Newsletter

Things look bleak for the Golden State!

Sent to my Congressman:

I've become a little more concerned about California's poor financial shape. I've wondered exactly what would happen if the state would completely default or worse, go bankrupt.

I, for one, would not want to have to bail it out. I brainstormed a bit recently and wondered if California could sell a part of itself. This is what I've seen corporations do when no other options are on the table.

Then, it will have to "get real" about what it can and cannot afford to spend, such as [allegedly] free medical care to any illegal alien that walks in the door.

Also, I've read news articles about the high taxes, regulations, and possibly other fees, forcing companies to leave the state, where it is cheaper to operate. California has almost literally shot itself in the foot and it is bleeding red ink.

[jdrtx]

Originally Posted by Stac2007

California is now property of Mexico whether the people like it or not! With millions of illegal Mexicans there and a far more on their way I think California is a lot cause. I guess you mean city of Riverside in the Mexican state of California.

It's the same with Texas south of I-10, the Mexicans are the majority and are taking over the governmental processes without firing a shot. The Hispanic's are having 5-6 kids and the European's 1-2 for the last 30 years. The Texas Independance of 1836 has been lost.

[Stac2007]

Originally Posted by jdrtx

It's the same with Texas south of I-10, the Mexicans are the majority and are taking over the governmental processes without firing a shot. The Hispanic's are having 5-6 kids and the European's 1-2 for the last 30 years. The Texas Independance of 1836 has been lost.

It's happening in New York also. Middle class people are tired of paying for social programs and welfare for people who don't work but have 4 tor 5 children outside of wedlock.

[Brian.Pearson]

Mexican consulate says the US will be be theirs, again in this youtube video.