Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I love the French language (learned it for several years still trying to improve) but I agree that it is not that useful in Canada, which is very unfortunate. I came to Canada in hope of being able to actually use it and improve dramatically only to find that chances that I can speak French is next to zero. Even in Montreal, once I open my mouth and people detect an accent, they switch to English (probably trying to make both sides easier) not caring about the fact that someone is trying to practice (it is not the same in Paris where I used French 95% of the time and hardly anyone switched to English with me like that).
French is hardly as important in Canada as Spanish in the US, because the use of French is highly localized in Canada despite the high percentage (25%?). Spanish on the other hand, is widely used in many American states from California to New York. I hope Canada will attract more French speaking people to immigrate to non-Quebec provinces, or the Quebeckers could more to other places. The fact that there is one big French province actually prevented French to spread more widely in major cities as Spanish in the US.
Some good points Bott, i also notice French people do in fact switch to English a lot when engaging an Anglophone,which is understandable if the Anglo.s French doesnt go much beyond "`bonjour" but i find the practice rather rude when i initiate a conversation in pretty good French and they come back to me in English.. as the province has gone to all this trouble to be totally French its rather odd logic when an Anglo speaks to you in French you then switch to English? In those situations i just keep speaking French ,you can speak any language you want.
I am not arguing against is its officialdom. Even English is not an official language of the US.
What I am saying is in real life (not public service, which is imposed by the government), French is way less useful in Canada than Spanish in the USA. You find plenty of Spanish speaking people in major cities in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco etc, but good luck with find francophones in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary etc.
In Toronto and Vancouver for example, it probably makes more sense to provide Mandarin services than French services because chances that French services are needed are simply much lower than Mandarin.
Sure, but French is still a bigger reality for national corporations in Canada than Spanish is for American corporations. There are still many, many national corporations in the U.S. that do little or nothing to cater to the Spanish-speaking market there, but there are next to none that ignore French in Canada.
The fact that there is a huge chunk of the country that operates in French from A to Z in everyday life in Canada makes a huge difference.
Even though the presence of Spanish is audible on the streets in many major U.S. cities, there aren't really any parts of the States where Home Depot operates a store entirely in Spanish, for example. Can you get an owner's manual in Spanish for your new car in Miami even? Probably not much chance of that happening.
I learned Spanish back in high school in the mid 60's, the last time i spoke Spanish was my last class in the subject back in 1965, today i know no Spanish.i dont view people who dont know second or third languages that they'll never use as somehow lacking. I think learning another language you'll never use is a total waste of time, if in the future you need to acquire another language there are methods of intensive learning that will give you the fundamentals within a short time.
Taking a couple of courses of Spanish in High School isn't the same as having gone to a Spanish school from ages 6-17. I'm sure if someone did that, they would not forget everything they learned.
How many other useless subjects did you take in high school or university? Would you have been better off taking some subject where you would never use the material again in your life? Either way, learning a second language can never be considered a waste of time.
I took Chinese in high school (basic Chinese in a regular English curriculum) and I don't remember much, but I can still introduce myself, say thank you, and other basic formalities. I've used it several times when encountering Chinese tourists or residents (which is rare here). Plus, drawing the characters was fun, and so was learning about the culture/food
Sure, I don't use it a lot in my daily life, but I use it more than my biology class in the same year, cutting up frogs.
The last two points raise the important point that learning another language, regardless of whether you end up using it or not, has been proven time and time again to improve a person's cognitive abilities.
Once again, a point that is missed by the anti-second-language gang.
The last two points raise the important point that learning another language, regardless of whether you end up using it or not, has been proven time and time again to improve a person's cognitive abilities.
Once again, a point that is missed by the anti-second-language gang.
Exactly. And in the case of Anglophones in parts of Canada where French is scarce, you'll still be exposed to certain elements in French since all products are labelled in both languages, instruction manuals, etc. TV channels are also available for viewing. I used to always get a kick watching American movies when characters spoke in French and I was able to understand what they were saying.
I haven't taken any courses in Spanish, yet whenever I go to the USA, I sometimes pick up pamphlets and instructions and try reading the Spanish version. You'd be surprised how easy it is for a French speaker to actually make meaning of what you are reading in Spanish.
Unsurprisngly, the only people who seem to think that learning a second language, for whatever reason, are people that come from the Anglosphere.
Is Spanish really that useful in the United States? A lot of people speak Spanish there, just like a lot of people speak Mandarin or Hindi in Toronto. However, they should be working towards being fluent in English if they live in Toronto or the U.S.
So, with that being said, what's the point of learning a language, when they should be striving towards fluency in English? It seems counter productive.
Personally, I would never move to another country and expect them to accommodate my language needs.
Roughly 50% of the English-speaking population of Ontario lives in Ontario, and the main centres of population there are only 500-600 km away from Quebec.
Every single school teaches French as a second language, and in every community there are also French immersion programs.
Every single consumer product in Ontario has French labelling on it.
French language TV and radio are available across Ontario.
Trade and other links between the two provinces are extensive and involve millions of interactions every single day.
There is probably a little bit more at play here than lack of exposure or usefulness.
Is Spanish really that useful in the United States? A lot of people speak Spanish there, just like a lot of people speak Mandarin or Hindi in Toronto. However, they should be working towards being fluent in English if they live in Toronto or the U.S.
So, with that being said, what's the point of learning a language, when they should be striving towards fluency in English? It seems counter productive.
Personally, I would never move to another country and expect them to accommodate my language needs.
Yes Spanish is useful in the USA. While I do agree that Spanish immigrants should try to become fluent in English, for some people it is difficult to do so. First generation immigrants who come to the USA at age 40 will have a much harder time becoming fluent than people of school age. Also, you can't expect two people of the same mother tongue to speak to each other in a foreign language, even if that language is the main language of the region where they live in. It's just human nature. By the second generation, most people will be proficient anyway.
About your third point, I very much agree that everyone should always try to learn the language of the locals in the region you're in. And notice how I said region because certain countries have more than 1, and even 2 languages spoken. Borders, whether it's for countries, provinces or states are artificial. Planet Earth is a geographic entity also, should we all speak Chinese since it's the most spoken language? Places like Beligum have multiple common languages. Obviously one language was there before the others. Does that make the others inferior and not important enough to learn? I don't think so. Places like Miami and Los Angeles have developped a large enough Spanish speaking population where it's very advantageous to know it on top of English. Nobody is treating English only speakers as second class citizens anywhere in the USA anyway.
Anyway I find kind of ironic how California was originally a Spanish territory, but now that Los Angeles is populated once again by a Hispanic plurality, non Spanish speakers are complaining all the time. What goes around comes around, and sometimes karma is a *****.
The last two points raise the important point that learning another language, regardless of whether you end up using it or not, has been proven time and time again to improve a person's cognitive abilities.
Once again, a point that is missed by the anti-second-language gang.
Really? I would think learning another language you'll never use is a total waste of time and the time wasted could be much better spent on more viable and useful subjects.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In those situations i just keep speaking French ,you can speak any language you want.
