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A more relaxed border is one thing, but an open border like between the EU would be a disaster for Canada.
Yes it is silly how we are interrogated at the border, but that's part of the American psyche now since 9/11.
It's not surprising though, since you still have some US politicians and others saying terrorists have crossed the border into the US from Canada, which is of course false. I believe there was one guy with some ingredients to make a bomb that they caught at a land crossing. Still not Canada's responsibility.
I don't think Quebec would be pushed to leave, but I do think it opens up the door to the possibility of them leaving. Part of the argument of Quebec not being an independent country, is it's attachment to Canada. If Canada as we know it, ceases to exist, I can easily see Quebeckers rethinking their role.
I think you're thinking of something a whole lot more radical than I am.. I'm talking about making it easier for people to cross borders - easier flow that is all not necessarily an open/porous border.. I'm certainly not talking about a wholesale acquisition and merger here either lol.. I'd still want a distinct Canada, distinct laws, constitution, charter, social system and distinct sovereignty. Canada would still be Canada..
As for Quebec leaving - if we improved flow between the two nations I don't think it would push Quebec one way or the other because i'm not advocating anything too radical here. If anything, at least in terms of perspective, Quebecers at least on this forum consider themselves more open to Americans than the R.O.C so if anything that would have a neutralizing effect on that perception/reality.
I do agree with you re 9/11 and border crossing... which is why essentially I think it'll be a long time before improvements to cross border flow will be made.
I didn't say all, but you're correct there are some small countries that have joined the EU over time.
I still stay that all those countries still have a better chance at keeping their identity than Canada would.
Not one of those countries is a super power and as domineering as the US.
Canada, in my opinion, would disappear fairly quickly if we had open borders with the US.
When I say benefit Canada, of course I mean Canadians. We are the country. The detriments and benefits are not just monetary.
Quebec is not irrelevant to it all. It's a large chunk of the country.
If Canada is so fragile and disappears that easily just because opening of border, then I would say there is no point in protecting Canada in the first place. Although I don't believe that will happen, whatever the "Canadianness" than you have in mind is ... this US itself is large and diverse enough to support different subculture. New England and Pacific NW are small too, and they didn't exactly disappear, and I am not sure what exactly will disappear that is so distinct from anything the US always sorts of has.
Tell me, how Canadians will lose as a result of this?
I am not saying Quebec is irrelevant, but whether it will secede is irrelevant. I will totally support their independence if they choose to, although I doubt that will be a smart move for Quebec in the first place.
If Canada is so fragile and disappears that easily just because opening of border, then I would say there is no point in protecting Canada in the first place. Although I don't believe that will happen, whatever the "Canadianness" than you have in mind is ... this US itself is large and diverse enough to support different subculture. New England and Pacific NW are small too, and they didn't exactly disappear, and I am not sure what exactly will disappear that is so distinct from anything the US always sorts of has.
Tell me, how Canadians will lose as a result of this?
I am not saying Quebec is irrelevant, but whether it will secede is irrelevant. I will totally support their independence if they choose to, although I doubt that will be a smart move for Quebec in the first place.
Its funny that such proud Canadians are worried about losing their identity. I certanly have more faith in Canada and what it has accomplished to remain completely automomous both politcally and culturally from the US.
You also make a good point about the US funtioning as a collection of countries already. The cultural and political differences across regions and state lines is very strongly defined. I have lived in different regions of the US and the feel of living in New England vs The South for example is as distinct as moving to another country at times. Anyone who doesnt regognize those differences is extremely ignorant and doesnt understand the US the way they claim to.
Finally the fear of a certain element flooding the borders for social benefits is not rooted in any reality. Massachusetts has had a Unviersal Healthcare law since 2006 and Vermont passed a single payer system of their own. In both states the growth population wise has been mainly immigration and professional base. Where is the huge influx of people taking advantage of these benefits? The poor in both countries are not as mobile as people like to think they are, plus in an EU type setting there would be mechanisms in place to limit such migration.
I think it's already established that neither Canada or Canadians would benefit from it. That was established on page one of this thread.
I think that some people are wanting to ignore the big white elephant in the room. Throughout this topic it seems nobody wants to address or think about the many serious social, political, educational and cultural problems and corruptions that exist in USA. No Canadians in their right minds would want those problems being imported into Canada and it's exactly what would happen if it was made easy for people to cross back and forth and take up jobs and residence as they please in either country. There is no way that Canadians here or those moving into USA would have a constructive influence on Americans that would help lessen or get rid of the American problems which are bred in their very bones. And to compound that situation there's too high a risk of Canadians living in America becoming corrupted by the very same problems that Canada doesn't want imported into Canada and then of them bringing that back home into Canada with them if/when they return.
Anyone who wants to argue the point and say none of that is true is just wanting to ignore the elephant in the room.
.
Hmm.
Well, as a land of immigrants, Canada receives newcomers from countries significantly more "corrupt" and with far more severe problems than the US (it's true!). Do you think THOSE problems have infiltrated Canada?
And what, exactly, ARE those problems in the US that are "bred in their bones"? I do hope we're not still attempting to beat that poor, dead horse called Canadians are less racist than Americans, are we? Please say we're not. Incidentally, as an intelligent, well-educated, independently-minded individual, I'm confident that I've managed to evade becoming "corrupted" during the many years I've chosen to live in the US. But perhaps other Canadians don't or wouldn't possess the same kind of fortitude I do to combat America's evil forces?
However, as I always say, if Canadians are SO concerned about the "corruption," "racism," "injustice," "greed," etc, that apparently embodies the United States, then they can VERY easily put their money where their mouths are. I would NEVER support any society I believed posed such an inherent "risk." Not with my money, my time, or my attention. Never. Money is the most powerful weapon, ultimately, and Canadians have plenty of it, relatively speaking, so you're much more influential than you claim yourselves to be.
If you want to restrict the "problems" of the US from "corrupting" Canada in any way - in fact, if you truly want to try to destroy the "corruption" at its roots - then STOP supporting the US financially. STOP shopping at American-owned companies, both brick-and-mortar and online. STOP eating at American-owned restaurants. STOP consuming American popular culture and media (no more US-produced TV, movies, magazines. No more Netflix. You really ought to stop having stories about Bruce Jenner and Kim Kardashian on the front covers of your "respected" newspapers, anyway, don't cha think?). STOP shopping, vacationing and retiring in the US. STOP crossing the border to fly out of US airports to get to Florida and Arizona more cheaply.
I could go on, but it's unnecessary. In short, STOP using American-produced goods and services in your everyday lives. Now, the bad news is that, yes, you'd have to give up a lot of the American things you've come to accept as intrinsic parts of your "Canadian" way of life. The good news (!), however, is that you'd stop being collective hypocrites.
The fact is, though, that Canadians already know all of this without someone like me having to point it out, but they choose to look the other way when it suits them to do so. Which is most of the time. They want all the same "cool" stuff that Americans enjoy, after all. They promised to take their kids to Disney, and they need to get to their vacation homes down south, so...
No, a self-imposed, personal embargo on the US to protest her "corruption" would involve a price that most Canadians would consider FAR too high. THAT is the big, white elephant in the room.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 05-04-2015 at 10:10 AM..
If you want to restrict the "problems" of the US from "corrupting" Canada in any way - in fact, if you truly want to try to undermine the "corruption" at its roots - then STOP supporting the US financially. STOP shopping at American-owned companies, both brick-and-mortar and online. STOP eating at American-owned restaurants. STOP consuming American popular culture and media (no more US-produced TV, movies, magazines. No more Netflix. You really ought to stop having stories about Bruce Jenner and Kim Kardashian on the front covers of your "respected" newspapers, anyway, don't cha think?). STOP shopping, vacationing and retiring in the US. STOP crossing the border to fly out of US airports to get to Florida and Arizona more cheaply.
I could go on, but it's unnecessary. In short, STOP using American-produced goods and services in your everyday lives. Now, the bad news is that, yes, you'd have to give up a lot of the American things you've come to accept as intrinsic parts of your "Canadian" way of life. The good news (!), however, is that you'd stop being collective hypocrites.
The fact is, though, that Canadians already know all of this without someone like me having to point it out, but they choose to look the other way when it suits them to do so. Which is most of the time. They want all the same "cool" stuff that Americans enjoy, after all. They promised to take their kids to Disney, and they need to get to their vacation homes down south, so...
No, a self-imposed, personal embargo on the US to protest her "corruption" would involve a price that most Canadians would consider FAR too high.
well said.
The majority of Anglo-Canadians are essentially living an American life from consumer products to clothes to entertainment, and then pretend we don't want the evil American culture to corrupt us?
Check out what is on TV during the non-local news time. It is all American content for Christ's sake. Half of today's Toronto Star is talking about Baltimore and whatever else is happening in the US.
well said.
The majority of Anglo-Canadians are essentially living an American life from consumer products to clothes to entertainment, and then pretend we don't want the evil American culture to corrupt us?
Check out what is on TV during the non-local news time. It is all American content for Christ's sake. Half of today's Toronto Star is talking about Baltimore and whatever else is happening in the US.
Its funny that such proud Canadians are worried about losing their identity. I certanly have more faith in Canada and what it has accomplished to remain completely automomous both politcally and culturally from the US.
You also make a good point about the US funtioning as a collection of countries already. The cultural and political differences across regions and state lines is very strongly defined. I have lived in different regions of the US and the feel of living in New England vs The South for example is as distinct as moving to another country at times. Anyone who doesnt regognize those differences is extremely ignorant and doesnt understand the US the way they claim to.
Finally the fear of a certain element flooding the borders for social benefits is not rooted in any reality. Massachusetts has had a Unviersal Healthcare law since 2006 and Vermont passed a single payer system of their own. In both states the growth population wise has been mainly immigration and professional base. Where is the huge influx of people taking advantage of these benefits? The poor in both countries are not as mobile as people like to think they are, plus in an EU type setting there would be mechanisms in place to limit such migration.
the thing is, whatever these nationalist Canadians think that Canada has that is so distinct from the US or worry Canada will lose if merged with the US, the US already has that somewhere.
I still don't know what Canada will lose or how it will suffer. Someone please enlighten me. People who lament that Canada will disappear probably think the entire US is like Texas and Detroit? Whatever social institution or ideology Canada possess that we think is fundamentally different from the US (universal healthcare? Public funded education? tighter gun control? More liberalism?) mostly likely already is present in the US, often on a larger scale.
what sickens me is what when Canadian media talks about the show business, they talk almost exclusively about what happens in Hollywood - they hardly mention in the US/Los Angeles/Miami - a different country, such and such happens, but rather gives you the impression that it is simply regular Canadian entertainment news.
Where is the Canadian pride?
And no, other countries don't do that (someone will say Hollywood is so influential and so..). Probably 5% of China or Korea's entertainment news is about Hollywood. It is a Canadian thing.
what sickens me is what when Canadian media talks about the show business, they talk almost exclusively about what happens in Hollywood - they hardly mention in the US/Los Angeles/Miami - a different country, such and such happens, but rather gives you the impression that it is simply regular Canadian entertainment news.
Where is the Canadian pride?
And no, other countries don't do that (someone will say Hollywood is so influential and so..). Probably 5% of China or Korea's entertainment news is about Hollywood. It is a Canadian thing.
It's always weird to hear people on TV (that you know aresitting in a studio in Toronto) or on the radio (that you know are sitting in a studio in Ottawa) talk about the "national TV ratings" and how 30 million people watched such-and-such a program.
Or how people sitting in a studio in Toronto talking on a cable network that is *only* available in Canada, referring to the "national championship" and how it was won by the Kansas Jayhawks or the Oklahoma Sooners.
Video stores are a dying breed, but in the old days when they were all over the place, it was odd when I lived in Ontario for me to see Canadian films usually stacked in the "foreign" section...
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