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Anecdotal stories of individual success are one thing. Multiple studies showing reality being contrary to majority belief are quite another.
...let's be careful with studies and experts...often the methodologies and the definitions of these studies can leave much room for interpretation and ambiguity....I'm talking in general
Finally, remember that studies are always based on small statistical examples.
US is one of the most unequal western society economically, it's true, not doubt about it....but also because its wealthy class is tremendously richer than, for example, the wealthy class of another country.
Let me give you a practical example...San Francisco is an extremely unequal city economically given its high concentration of multi billionaires...but that does not mean that the average worker in San Francisco is doing badly....
YOU didn't, but the poster to whom I was responding that you chose to lecture me about DID with this little nugget: {"But if you want to make something of yourself and are prepared to actually work for it the US can be a great option. Where the US isn't a great option is if (1) you prefer leisure time to growing your career when it counts,"}
You singled me out for the "broad brush painting" lecture but somehow overlooked why I responded thusly to that silliness.
I should, of course, have been more succinct and accurate in my response to you to avoid confusion and for that I apologize.
My dear Brusan, I am flattered that you think I have the ability to address every inaccuracy posted on this forum. I am but a lowly man with a short attention span and a habit of skipping through the majority of posts and focusing on the ones I come across at random. It was no personal offense meant towards you but rather an opportunity to share my personal experience working in the US.
To correct that inaccuracy, you work plenty hard in Canada and the benefit packages are almost as equally shi**y as the US compared to Western Europe for example. At least we dont work the insane hours my friends in Hong Kong and Tokyo do, so all is not lost. So if you are are driven go getting workaholic, there are plenty of companies on both sides of the border that will welcome you with open arms and squeeze the final drops of joy from of your life with pleasure.
Somehow the US still manage to be one of the most prolific western nation, people do get maternity leave....would I like to be codified into law to a minimum?? Yes...nobody said the US is perfect.
I do not consider union penetration exactly a positive, at least not always so...I do come from a country where unions di bear big responsibility in making the country very inefficient in the last 60 years.
It is not hilarious at all when some poster blast few links trying to paint a picture of a widespread poverty epidemic in America....
Easier access to credit and tax rebates are indeed benefits.
I think on the whole Unions have represented progress for workers.. Are there examples where they have stunted productivity and growth - absolutely but on the whole they have benefitted societies more than not. You also have to look at the collective agreements between companies and unions - there are actually good agreements that both parties appreciate and respect and have made the relationship work well..
Easier access to credit somewhere else is something i'm not relating to personally.. Perhaps its because i'm paid well and have a good credit rating but accessing low or no interest credit is simply not a problem for me. Certainly aside from my car loan it is not something I want to jump into, especially if that means living beyond my means for a cheap loan buying something lavish I can ill afford and don't need... As for credits and tax rebates - i'd need an Accountant to leaf through the comparative benefits for that stuff.. To be quite frank - its not high on my list of to do's in life.. Arranging upcoming tours in Yogyakarta is higher up the list.
As for the U.S being the most prolific western nation - well yes it certainly on many measures of success has done well but I think you need to look at matters in detail instead of just overall output. Sometimes what looks nice on the outside isn't necessarily a well oiled machine in and instead of a bunch of smiles there are a bunch of frowns..
It is not hilarious at all when some poster blast few links trying to paint a picture of a widespread poverty epidemic in America..
Well conditional on two fronts...one that I am the poster you are referring to and two that those links provided do nothing of the sort. They are talking about the prospect of "upward mobility" either real or imagined and they should serve to put to rest that notion that America is a better place to rise up the rung given the same education, same socio-economic status and same heritage.
I sure don't want to get started on the topic you brought up: widespread poverty in America.
I think on the whole Unions have represented progress for workers.. Are there examples where they have stunted productivity and growth - absolutely but on the whole they have benefitted societies more than not. You also have to look at the collective agreements between companies and unions - there are actually good agreements that both parties appreciate and respect and have made the relationship work well..
I agree...reasonable unions (in the past) were beneficial.
Quote:
As for credits and tax rebates - i'd need an Accountant to leaf through the comparative benefits for that stuff.. To be quite frank - its not high on my list of to do's in life.. Arranging upcoming tours in Yogyakarta is higher up the list.
Mortgage deduction it's a huge benefit (and an incentive to keep people in debt too but I digress...), granted it needs to be squared off against property taxation load.
My dear Brusan, I am flattered that you think I have the ability to address every inaccuracy posted on this forum. I am but a lowly man with a short attention span and a habit of skipping through the majority of posts and focusing on the ones I come across at random. It was no personal offense meant towards you but rather an opportunity to share my personal experience working in the US.
To correct that inaccuracy, you work plenty hard in Canada and the benefit packages are almost as equally shi**y as the US compared to Western Europe for example. At least we dont work the insane hours my friends in Hong Kong and Tokyo do, so all is not lost. So if you are are driven go getting workaholic, there are plenty of companies on both sides of the border that will welcome you with open arms and squeeze the final drops of joy from of your life with pleasure.
We have complete agreement in everything you have said here......everything! .......
I am retired since 2004 and living the life earned from a career never once being unemployed and never once drawing on a government assistance. I consider myself very fortunate indeed to have lived my life during a time when all that was necessary to be employed was a willingness to work.
In that regard as a tradesman holding certification in three trades, I bemoan the fortunes of todays youth entering the workforce not having that same "quasi" guarantee of employment. I'm leaving this planet at the right time for me and mine.
My one wish for all is to have the life I've enjoyed, and the end of days I'm currently enjoying, in full measure.
Well conditional on two fronts...one that I am the poster you are referring to and two that those links provided do nothing of the sort. They are talking about the prospect of "upward mobility" either real or imagined and they should serve to put to rest that notion that America is a better place to rise up the rung given the same education, same socio-economic status and same heritage.
I sure don't want to get started on the topic you brought up: widespread poverty in America.
Call them anecdotal examples all you want but I can post so many of them of people that got where they are and it would not have been possible in their home countries....real life my friend..
Having a college education is not longer a guarantee for a prosperous life....anywhere, not only in the US.
Getting a liberal art or a communication degree and be able to find only a retail job for $15 an hour?? Tough luck and God help you with your student loan debt...
By the way, a quick search revealed that US individual median income in 2005 was USD 28,567, Canada median income in 2013 was CAD 27,600....
Last edited by saturno_v; 02-11-2016 at 06:58 PM..
I agree...reasonable unions (in the past) were beneficial.
Mortgage deduction it's a huge benefit (and an incentive to keep people in debt too but I digress...), granted it needs to be squared off against property taxation load.
I once had the CEO of IMASCO Corp, Jean Louis Mercier state categorically to me: "companies usually deserve the Union they ultimately get."
While I have seen egregious and irresponsible behaviour on the part of more than a few Union leaders, it was usually apparent in my role as a consultant, that those companies thusly afflicted, missed more than one opportunity to provide moral, ethical and intelligent influence upon their bargaining unit Union representatives.
Every Union leader I ever met; learned their negotiating, dispute resolution, mediation, and other skills from dealings with the company hierarchy.
Call them anecdotal examples all you want but I can post so many of them of people that got where they are and it would not have been possible in their home countries....real life my friend..
Having a college education is not longer a guarantee for a prosperous life....anywhere, not only in the US.
Getting a liberal art or a communication degree and be able to find only a retail job for $15 an hour?? Tough luck and good luck with your student loan load...
By the way, a quick search revealed that US individual median income in 2005 was USD 28,567, Canada median income in 2013 was CAD 27,600....
Anecdotal examples are available to all of us I'm sure in quantities enough to choke a horse but those study links I posted were authoritative in their condemnation in the fallacy belief that all things being equal, the ability to climb the ladder is still primarily predicated upon your socio-economic status at birth, opportunity for education, and good luck. They were pretty well universal in their debunking the myth that working longer, harder and sacrificing benefits like vacation entitlements awarded you a leg-up over your counterparts.
Many on here, including me, would agree with you on the assessment of liberal arts degrees being in any way useful other than to demonstrate to a prospective employer you have the capacity to sit in a classroom for multiple years while absorbing mindless tripe.
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