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Oh for heaven's sake; this from someone throwing around the ad hominem accusation!
I don't require calming down as I'm being no more bellicose than you over this silly issue.
Yes you replied to PDW about his free trade submission and threw in a snide remark about Ontario. I pointed out at the time that had no relevance to this discussion but you chose to gird yourself in YOUR version of what constitutes truth. That truth being now stated as an old Tory enacted National Policy.
I have no problem with anyone's version of the truth and I'm not arguing whether or not Ontario benefitted unfairly through any policy. I'm arguing as to it's relevance to this thread, dang it all. What the heck is wrong with you? Now it's my RCN background with more ad hominem attack from one who purports to disdain it?
If you categorize what I've written on here as rubbish, a personal attack; what the heck was your response to PDW might I ask?
PDW's post got YOUR knickers in a twist and hence your reference to Ontario in a thread having nothing whatsoever to do with Canada's history of National Policy. THAT was the unrelated nonsense I objected to, remember?
I've asked nicely, and worked myself all the way through cajoling sarcastically and you still don't get it. Now I'm just plain stating outright; your unrelated nonsense over Ontario has no bearing whatsoever in this thread does it?
Start another thread about the history of Canada as it relates to unfair tariffs and National Policies as related to any sector of the economy and you can bash Ontario at your leisure with opinion and facts.
Fair enough?
No, not fair enough. This is just like when you went after newdixiegirl in that media-related Canada-US rivalry thread. Unlike her, I'm not content to let you try and intimidate me or to bully me into silence.
The topic of free trade -- which in its current form has limited provisions for labour mobility -- and the free flow of goods, services, labour, etc., is completely central to the discussion at hand. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you. If you choose to ignore that because it's inconvenient to your churlish outburst, then I question your judgment.
You flew off the handle. I called you on it. You didn't like being called on it. Too bad. I'm sorry if you're going through a hard time with your friend's health woes and I can only assume that this is playing a role in your uncharacteristic outbursts on here as of late. Anyway, I don't intend to keep up this off-topic bickering, nor will I apologise (not that you've asked to do so) for the expression of my perfectly valid and well-formed statements of opinion.
No, not fair enough. This is just like when you went after newdixiegirl in that media-related Canada-US rivalry thread. Unlike her, I'm not content to let you try and intimidate me or to bully me into silence.
The topic of free trade -- which in its current form has limited provisions for labour mobility -- and the free flow of goods, services, labour, etc., is completely central to the discussion at hand. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you. If you choose to ignore that because it's inconvenient to your churlish outburst, then I question your judgment.
You flew off the handle. I called you on it. You didn't like being called on it. Too bad. I'm sorry if you're going through a hard time with your friend's health woes and I can only assume that this is playing a role in your uncharacteristic outbursts on here as of late. Anyway, I don't intend to keep up this off-topic bickering, nor will I apologise (not that you've asked to do so) for the expression of my perfectly valid and well-formed statements of opinion.
Oh brother.
I've made my point about your nonsense and I'm more than content with my position.
The to and fro with you started with me calling you on introducing your "unrelated nonsense" about Ontario to this thread about a Canada/US EU type of arrangement.
I haven't flown off any handle and you haven't called me on anything. I took exception to your introducing Ontario into the mix in a less than acceptable manner.
Now you resort to bringing a past thread into this mix in an attempt to bolster your personal ad hominem attack on me which I thought you found to be a repugnant practice and non relevant to the topic of discussion.
You're long on hat and short on cattle Mac, when it comes to practicing what you preach.
You may also stop with the patronizing faux sympathy as I have nothing but doubt as to it's veracity.
Like yourself I have no wish to debate this issue any further with you.
Agriculture and manufacturing (two of our country's main industries) has been hurt by the impact of low cost foreign goods, especially those from the United States. Are you going to pretend this only impacted Ontario? We also have this big American businesses coming here more than ever, giving the aspiring Canadian entrepreneur little hope to compete.
I've made my point about your nonsense and I'm more than content with my position.
The to and fro with you started with me calling you on introducing your "unrelated nonsense" about Ontario to this thread about a Canada/US EU type of arrangement.
I haven't flown off any handle and you haven't called me on anything. I took exception to your introducing Ontario into the mix in a less than acceptable manner.
Now you resort to bringing a past thread into this mix in an attempt to bolster your personal ad hominem attack on me which I thought you found to be a repugnant practice and non relevant to the topic of discussion.
You're long on hat and short on cattle Mac, when it comes to practicing what you preach.
You may also stop with the patronizing faux sympathy as I have nothing but doubt as to it's veracity.
Like yourself I have no wish to debate this issue any further with you.
As far as I can tell, you've offered up nothing to justify your inappropriate outrage. The anti-free trade sentiment expressed on occasion by some from Ontario -- poster pdw in this instance -- is, in fact, completely central to this discussion and it underpins the "close the border" mentality that select Canadians do reflexively invoke. If pdw wants to interject with a pro-tariff agenda, then I'll call him on it. That Macdonald-era inspired stuff has no place in modern day Canada. In the past, it harmed the regions and operated primarily to enrich business interests in Ontario (and Montreal once upon a time) and the regions want no part of it again. It was tyranny of the majority in action and it was intended to fleece the regions. Some have gone so far as to characterise it as imperial in nature, but I don't know if I'd style it that way.
And if you don't think my sympathy is sincere, then I don't know what to say. Once upon a time, you struck me as being a reasonable poster. I didn't always agree with you about things, but reasonable adults can disagree. As of late, however, it's like you're spoiling for a fight; it's like you've lost the plot. This seems out of character.
You went off on newdixiegirl in that other thread and seemed to offer up news about that health scare as a reason why you were acting up in it. I've tried to empathise, presuming that this is what is continuing to cause you to act up now, and you've decide to spurn my sympathy, acting like a petulant little boy. Very good then. As you were.
Agriculture and manufacturing (two of our country's main industries) has been hurt by the impact of low cost foreign goods, especially those from the United States. Are you going to pretend this only impacted Ontario? We also have this big American businesses coming here more than ever, giving the aspiring Canadian entrepreneur little hope to compete.
The lowering or the elimination of tariff barriers has affected Ontario almost exclusively. It has had some impact in the parts of Quebec that still have (or that had) a manufacturing base, but it's in Ontario's once-protected industrial heartland that the lowering or the elimination of such tariff barriers has been most keenly felt. The only reason that the impact of their lowering or elimination wasn't felt earlier than it ultimately was had to do with Canada's 60-70¢ dollar in the 1990s and the early 2000s, a low dollar that prolonged the competitiveness of our goods in the American marketplace.
The other provinces have managed to tread water or, in some cases, to roar ahead. Lowering or eliminating those tariffs appears to have had very little adverse effect outside of Ontario and the regions can now trade more freely with their American neighbours, no longer being compelled to business with government-protected enterprises in Central Canada. The folks in the regions are delighted that they can now trade freely, even if that trading relationship suffers from the occasional hiccup. The folks in the regions never want to return to the status quo ante.
As for those big American businesses coming here, fair play to them. I'm also happy enough to purchase low-cost foreign goods if they suit my needs. Canadians shouldn't be expected to subsidise or artificially prop up Canadian enterprises that cannot compete in the absence of government intervention.
I've got a job, a house, and a Jeep.
I'm all set for now, thanks!
Might go the Dominion House Friday evening and grab a beer or five. One of the oldest continuously operating taverns in the country. Older then confederation, actually. Y'all got time to come down for a pint? Talk this over in person?
As far as I can tell, you've offered up nothing to justify your inappropriate outrage. The anti-free trade sentiment expressed on occasion by some from Ontario -- poster pdw in this instance -- is, in fact, completely central to this discussion and it underpins the "close the border" mentality that select Canadians do reflexively invoke. If pdw wants to interject with a pro-tariff agenda, then I'll call him on it. That Macdonald-era inspired stuff has no place in modern day Canada. In the past, it harmed the regions and operated primarily to enrich business interests in Ontario (and Montreal once upon a time) and the regions want no part of it again. It was tyranny of the majority in action and it was intended to fleece the regions. Some have gone so far as to characterise it as imperial in nature, but I don't know if I'd style it that way.
And if you don't think my sympathy is sincere, then I don't know what to say. Once upon a time, you struck me as being a reasonable poster. I didn't always agree with you about things, but reasonable adults can disagree. As of late, however, it's like you're spoiling for a fight; it's like you've lost the plot. This seems out of character.
You went off on newdixiegirl in that other thread and seemed to offer up news about that health scare as a reason why you were acting up in it. I've tried to empathise, presuming that this is what is continuing to cause you to act up now, and you've decide to spurn my sympathy, acting like a petulant little boy. Very good then. As you were.
And once again you resort to the personal to admonish me.
Your characterization of me as someone requiring empathy or understanding is more patronization by someone who has proven to be as intransigent as his chosen target; it is not applicable in any case.
Your reference to a long dead thread using it to underscore your assessment of me being less than reasonable is the stuff of a person searching for ammo among the clouds. Why do you resort to this stuff when I have not once referred to your personal nature, character or YOUR perhaps less than stellar posting history?
"Bully", "Petulant little boy", "Spoiling for a fight", "Lost the plot". These are the types of personal ad hominem you've gone on record as abhorring, are they not? What's the word for that particular character trait again? You cannot seem to refrain. Why is that?
Had you posted all your points about Central Canada or Upper Canada you've made since your abrupt response to PDW, instead of simply referring to a point made about Free Trade deals with the caustic rejoinder of "propping up Ontario", in the first place, we could have engaged you on those points instead of your blanket condemnation of a whole province AND, by logical extension, those who live in it.
My very first rejoinder to the post in question stated I agreed with the bulk of it, all but for you resorting to the caustic Ontario bash. That is the genesis for this whole series of posts. You've been more than capable of showing us all the features you've attributed solely to myself, along with a generous smattering of negative personal references among those posts of yours.
The mod's and others have been more than tolerant of our diatribe, wouldn't you agree?
And once again you resort to the personal to admonish me.
Your characterization of me as someone requiring empathy or understanding is more patronization by someone who has proven to be as intransigent as his chosen target; it is not applicable in any case.
Your reference to a long dead thread using it to underscore your assessment of me being less than reasonable is the stuff of a person searching for ammo among the clouds. Why do you resort to this stuff when I have not once referred to your personal nature, character or YOUR perhaps less than stellar posting history?
"Bully", "Petulant little boy", "Spoiling for a fight", "Lost the plot". These are the types of personal ad hominem you've gone on record as abhorring, are they not? What's the word for that particular character trait again? You cannot seem to refrain. Why is that?
Had you posted all your points about Central Canada or Upper Canada you've made since your abrupt response to PDW, instead of simply referring to a point made about Free Trade deals with the caustic rejoinder of "propping up Ontario", in the first place, we could have engaged you on those points instead of your blanket condemnation of a whole province AND, by logical extension, those who live in it.
My very first rejoinder to the post in question stated I agreed with the bulk of it, all but for you resorting to the caustic Ontario bash. That is the genesis for this whole series of posts. You've been more than capable of showing us all the features you've attributed solely to myself, along with a generous smattering of negative personal references among those posts of yours.
The mod's and others have been more than tolerant of our diatribe, wouldn't you agree?
You appear to have been indulging in projection from the beginning of our exchange. The reasons why you have been doing so elude me. I explained why Ontario was mentioned. You seem to have ignored that, preferring to characterise me as some unsophisticated individual from the regions who received tales from my elders down at the jetty about how we got short-changed. You must remember that the tariff regime which we are discussing and which was in place for more than a century was not dismantled until less than 30 years ago. This isn't ancient history. It seems pretty clear to me that you tried to impugn my credibility from the very first steps of this exchange.
You've been posting here long enough to understand that pdw is well-known to support tariffs and other government intervention in trading that many of us have repeatedly rejected. Again, I explained why Ontario was mentioned. The government action pdw might prefer to see was undertaken in the past to benefit commercial interests in the region between lying between Montreal and Windsor. Those arrangements were fully intended to allow those interests to prosper at the expense of the regions. I have explained myself as clearly as I can and I have tried to avoid getting personal. You, on the other hand, have taken to writing multi-paragraph replies questioning me and my motives. You refuse to engage on the issues. Instead, you seem to focus on me. This appears to be similar to how you conducted yourself in that supposedly "long dead thread" which saw the bulk of its activity three-to-four short weeks ago. I don't know what more I can say. Have a great day.
Last edited by maclock; 05-02-2014 at 08:54 AM..
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