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Let's just say shopping in Canada was an eye-opening experience.
But what is most incredible to see is the stranglehold that big businesses have on the Canadian consumer. In Canada there is hardly any competition and corporations and big businesses can just do whatever they feel. They can charge people ridiculous prices, and guess what - the average Canadian will pay because he simply has no other options, and many aren't even aware of how badly they are being gutted on a daily basis.
that reminds me of the famous 911 charges ($0.99) and system access fee ($6.99-7.99) that every consumer need to pay before 2009.
Basically the telecom giants just decided to charge $8 a month more for no reason, yet pretended that it is some sort of legitimate government fees which shouldn't be advertised as part of the monthly charges.
And Canadian customers just sucked it up for years. $0.99 911 fees, seriously?
Regarding airfares, I posted about it many times. What's more annoying is the fuel and surcharges, which are so dubious. Suppose you have 15,000 frequently fliers mileage from Air Canada to fly from Toronto to NYC, you need to pay additional $150 for those charges. If you apply for typical American air miles, you pay something like $15-20. That's how Canada works. Pay, pay, pay!
No, but we just don't have that kind of competition and never will. It's not even just a bureacracy thing, the population just isn't there to support all kinds of new budget options.
Then Spain, UK, Italy etc. all have the "economy of scale"?
If you look at your airfare, a big chunk is indeed government fees (taxes). So a typical 50% discount for Air Canada or Porter is indeed only a 25% discount.
A return trip between Toronto and Montreal on Sept 20-27 costs $530, including $125 of taxes.
A trip for the same dates between LA and San Fran costs $196, including $43 of taxes.
Even a London-Rome flight is only $362, a 4.5 hour trip.
This is why I never fly between Canadian cities. $530 for a one hour flight, I mean seriously, Canada?
No, but we just don't have that kind of competition and never will. It's not even just a bureacracy thing, the population just isn't there to support all kinds of new budget options.
Sometimes Porter has sales and I've flown Sudbury to Toronto Island for around $80 before. These aren't even low budget planes. It was probably the best flying experience I've ever had. Their waiting area in YTO has free snacks, drinks, and wifi for passengers.
Last year I flew from Cairo to Toronto via Abu Dhabi on Etihad, a great airline, for $400.
This is the mentality that keeps Canada so provincial and allows us to keep being ripped off. I used to think that the price gouging wasn't that bad either until I lived in the US and realized the extent of it. Bostonkid's term describes it best: Highway Robbery. And you trying to find ways to justify it. Your mentality is the one that allows it to flourish. Eventually someone has to say enough is enough! We lie next to the biggest economy in the world for crying out loud! But people are terrified of American businesses coming in. Canadian companies make it sound like American companies are the boogeyman and ignorant Canadian citizens take the bait. The more companies, the better.
Before the '50's Canada was even more protectionist and more dedicated to keeping American business out. Canadians were terrified that to let American businesses compete with Canadian ones would be akin to letting the US take over Canada. The result was that Canadians were much poorer compared to the US relative to today and Canadian companies had a freehand over the Canadian citizen since there was no competition. But finally in the '50's people gave American businesses a shot and much more competition arose. Canada became a richer country within a few years and today our standard of living is much better. Our science and technology is better too. So why don't we do that again? Why do people still believe the fear mongering about American businesses buying Tim Horton's? Look at the Europeans, they formed the EU and everyone benefits from German companies. It would be foolish for Belgium to say "no, we don't want German companies here, only Canadian companies".
This is why American companies put maple leafs on their business logos in Canada. Statistically, Canadians are more likely to frequent places that are expressly "Canadian". The same statistics say Americans and Chinese don't care what nationality owns the company. Many Canadians actually think they are performing a duty by shopping Canadian. It is a provincial mindset that needs to change. Business only care about money. For us, the regular people, we are wasting our hard earned money and giving it to a company CEO. And then the CEO scares us about incoming competition, and we actually sympathize because he's the Canadian (good guy) with him and try to keep him from having competition which would actually greater benefit the regular citizen.
This is the mentality that keeps Canada so provincial and allows us to keep being ripped off. I used to think that the price gouging wasn't that bad either until I lived in the US and realized the extent of it. Bostonkid's term describes it best: Highway Robbery. And you trying to find ways to justify it. Your mentality is the one that allows it to flourish. Eventually someone has to say enough is enough! We lie next to the biggest economy in the world for crying out loud! But people are terrified of American businesses coming in. Canadian companies make it sound like American companies are the boogeyman and ignorant Canadian citizens take the bait. The more companies, the better.
Before the '50's Canada was even more protectionist and more dedicated to keeping American business out. Canadians were terrified that to let American businesses compete with Canadian ones would be akin to letting the US take over Canada. The result was that Canadians were much poorer compared to the US relative to today and Canadian companies had a freehand over the Canadian citizen since there was no competition. But finally in the '50's people gave American businesses a shot and much more competition arose. Canada became a richer country within a few years and today our standard of living is much better. Our science and technology is better too. So why don't we do that again? Why do people still believe the fear mongering about American businesses buying Tim Horton's? Look at the Europeans, they formed the EU and everyone benefits from German companies. It would be foolish for Belgium to say "no, we don't want German companies here, only Canadian companies".
This is why American companies put maple leafs on their business logos in Canada. Statistically, Canadians are more likely to frequent places that are expressly "Canadian". The same statistics say Americans and Chinese don't care what nationality owns the company. Many Canadians actually think they are performing a duty by shopping Canadian. It is a provincial mindset that needs to change. Business only care about money. For us, the regular people, we are wasting our hard earned money and giving it to a company CEO. And then the CEO scares us about incoming competition, and we actually sympathize because he's the Canadian (good guy) with him and try to keep him from having competition which would actually greater benefit the regular citizen.
Not even reading this because I didn't ever disagree with the fact that the states is a lot cheaper. I was just saying that in spite of that, it doesn't mean you are doomed to be gouged as far as airfare goes. You are just cutthroat and I don't actually have a provincial attitude about this at all.
Awhile ago Porter was trying to expand flights to Miami and elsewhere in North America, and through doing this, it would have to expand Toronto Island's airport. People complained that it might be too 'noisey' (in the noisiest area of Toronto anyways) and that it might be grounds for cancelling the entire plan. That's ridiculous and it would be a great way to boost extra services and possibly make flying in Canada more competitive. There was a thread about it here and I was the first more or less to advocate for it.
And Botticelli, it's not the same to compare to say Belgium or Spain. Most cheap flights there are courtesy of Europe-wide low cost carriers. Iberia and Brussels Airways aren't really that cheap, but Easyjet and Ryanair are. Those aren't local to Spain and Belgium though.
Many Canadians actually think they are performing a duty by shopping Canadian. It is a provincial mindset that needs to change. .
LOL! I can attest to that. I heard many times when Canadians say "I prefer spending on Canadian companies so that the money flows in the local economy".
How ignorant and provincial! Like Starbucks etc. actually hire all American employees and don't contribute to the Toronto/Montreal economy. And like Tim Horton's care less about money and profit!
If the Swiss had such a provincial mind, they would starve to death instead of being the most competitive and wealthy country in the world.
Canada should just completely open its market to the US and let goods and service flow with no duties whatsoever. Consumers will be better off, big corporation will actually have the incentive to innovate and be more productive and efficient, and the economy will be strong. US-Canada should form a EU kind of integrated market, even a single currency market.
Those who think Canada's finances are so much better and don't want to be tainted by the Americans, well, are we really pretending Bank of Canada doesn't follow every step the Fed does and independently decides Canada's monetary policy? Give me a break.
It is utterly stupid to be sitting by a large market and yet somehow fear its presence and try to "protect" itself from it.
Not even reading this because I didn't ever disagree with the fact that the states is a lot cheaper. I was just saying that in spite of that, it doesn't mean you are doomed to be gouged as far as airfare goes. You are cutthroat.
And Botticelli, it's not the same to compare to say Belgium or Spain. Most cheap flights there are courtesy of Europe-wide low cost carriers. Iberia and Brussels Airways aren't really that cheap, but Easyjet and Ryanair are. Those aren't local to Spain and Belgium though.
yes, then why Canada doesn't have a budget airline? And why don't American budget airlines operate in Canada at all, like they do in Europe?
Yes, there are sometimes deals in Canada too, but compared with real American deals, it is negligible. Savvy travelers in America fly frequently just to obtain the mileages (for example, they fly out of NYC to Las Vegas and return 40 minutes later on the same flight), because sometimes the price is so low it is worth to waste the 8 hours just to get the accumulated mileage. In Canada, air fare starts at $250 so that idea is nothing but laughable.
Also, deal never occur between Canadian cities. Do you see flights for $400 between Toronto and Vancouver? I have never.
Not even reading this because I didn't ever disagree with the fact that the states is a lot cheaper. I was just saying that in spite of that, it doesn't mean you are doomed to be gouged as far as airfare goes. You are just cutthroat and I don't actually have a provincial attitude about this at all. Awhile ago Porter was trying to expand flights to Miami and elsewhere in North America, and had to expand Toronto Island's airport. People complained that it might be too 'noisey' and that it might be grounds for cancelling that plan. That's ridiculous and it would be a great way to boost some extra services and possibly make flying in Canada more competitive.
And Botticelli, it's not the same to compare to say Belgium or Spain. Most cheap flights there are courtesy of Europe-wide low cost carriers. Iberia and Brussels Airways aren't really that cheap, but Easyjet and Ryanair are. Those aren't local to Spain and Belgium though.
There is nothing "cutthroat" about allowing competition. I am talking about bettering the financial lives of Canadians. Why do you want to be ripped off while lying down? Why not stand up and fight for better prices?
The entire Canadian population would benefit except for the CEO's and fat cats at the top. How is that "cut throat"? It will be easier to find a job, we will get paid better, be more innovative, benefit from lower prices, and attract more talent. You don't want that? Sorry, but what's the downside other than the top elite of CEO's and corporation owners having to try harder? The only people who shouldn't want that are the CEO's who push nonsense like "buy Canadian" and try to make you fear foreign companies.
yes, then why Canada doesn't have a budget airline? And why don't American budget airlines operate in Canada at all, like they do in Europe?
Yes, there are sometimes deals in Canada too, but compared with real American deals, it is negligible. Savvy travelers in America fly frequently just to obtain the mileages (for example, they fly out of NYC to Las Vegas and return 40 minutes later on the same flight), because sometimes the price is so low it is worth to waste the 8 hours just to get the accumulated mileage. In Canada, air fare starts at $250 so that idea is nothing but laughable.
Also, deal never occur between Canadian cities. Do you see flights for $400 between Toronto and Vancouver? I have never.
Because we have two airlines only that could cover that. Westjet and Air Canada.
There's not even a real budget airline on the scale of Ryanair or Easyjet in the USA either. Star Alliance and the US-American merger have some pretty sweet air miles deals, but that's not exactly the same as a budget airline. To be honest, I don't quite understand why no one is trying to do long distance domestic flights in Canada right now, but I feel confident the situation would improve if more companies existed for it here
We also have the problem of basically having no mega-touristy cities in the centre of the country. It's like you have Montreal, Toronto, and Ottawa all close enough, then thousands of km West before Vancouver. It's a black hole between our three biggest and I'm sure that segregation contributes to the problem.
But yeah, I agree it's more expensive and that's probably owed to the fact that we have a small population with very little companies to compete. Also the infrastructure and population clusters is so concentrated that Canadians outside of big cities don't even think about visiting the next capital over as much as Canadian or European with some disposable cash do.
There is nothing "cutthroat" about allowing competition. I am talking about bettering the financial lives of Canadians. Why do you want to be ripped off while lying down? Why not stand up and fight for better prices?
The entire Canadian population would benefit except for the CEO's and fat cats at the top. How is that "cut throat"? It will be easier to find a job, we will get paid better, be more innovative, benefit from lower prices, and attract more talent. You don't want that? Sorry, but what's the downside other than the top elite of CEO's and corporation owners having to try harder? The only people who shouldn't want that are the CEO's who push nonsense like "buy Canadian" and try to make you fear foreign companies.
I meant that you are behaving cutthroat in response to me.
Guys, regarding the large differences in airfare between America and Canada, market size/economy of scale is one factor, as correctly pointed out by Jesse. However, other variables include government-mandated charges and fees. I have a good friend who works at United operations in Chicago, and his answer to this is that Canada simply charges a higher navigation fee for use of its airspace than most other countries, and that fee is usually passed directly to the passenger.
Airspace usage fees in Canada are determined by Nav Canada: NAV CANADA: About Us - Who We Are Basically, the fees are determined by how much time an aircraft spends in Canadian airspace. My friend at United told me that certain flights from U.S. to Europe/Asia have to pass over Canadian airspace, but they try to spend as little time as possible in Canadian airspace due to the high usage rates charged by Nav Canada. He also tells me that even certain Air Canada domestic flights are routed through U.S. airspace on purpose, in order to avoid using Canada's domestic airspace. The fees are calculated as a factor of 1) miles and time spent in Canadian airspace 2) aircraft size, weight and other one time fees like terminal usage.
I've been hearing that Air Canada wants to make YYZ a hub for all international flights coming into NA from Europe. I really wish them good luck, because YYZ has really solid infrastructure compared to other U.S. domestic airport dumpsters (La Guardia, Newark, JFK, Dulles... sigh), but they will have to figure out a way to make Canadian airspace cheaper and more affordable for them and other foreign carriers, or no one will dare touching Canadian airspace due to the outrageous charges.
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$0.99 911 fees, seriously? 
