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Yes I have a green card and this covers it very well. I didn't know you were so familiar with the process. Would still be in LA if it worked out?
I applied for a job in LA which I almost got. Then they rejected me because they didn't even want to sponsor H1B for an entry level position. A local girl from my department got the job. This is essentially why I decided to not to go through all this pain and moved to Canada. Many of my classmates stayed, and managed to get PR after years of waiting, and some returned to their home country.
I am not complaining here - it worked quite well in Toronto for me so far (stable well paid job, great pension if I stay forever, walking distance to my condo), but I would have definitely stayed if that job worked out. And if I had green card today, I would most likely move back. Don't get me wrong, Toronto is a great city, but LA offers something far better (many Canadians hate LA I know but it actually is a great city to live with many charming neighbourhoods) and cost of living is lower (Canadians cities are simply too expensive for that they offer).
Is this inferiority complex in Canada a true phenomon?
I don't believe so. I think it's a myth. In over 60+ years I've never seen evidence of it in Canadian society. If anything, what I've seen evidence of is a quiet or hidden sort of Canadian pride and in the past 20 years that hidden pride has become more open and Canadians have been getting much more vocal and demonstrative about their pride of Canada and Canadian society.
I think the evidence of that pride being demonstrated has become threatening to certain other people. The only people I have ever see mentioning this so-called Canadian inferiority complex have all been certain types of Americans. I've never heard of it from people from other countries and apparently they haven't heard of it either. So I think it's an American myth that some Americans have made up and spread around for chest thumping propaganda purposes to bolster their own sense of superiority which has been very notably flagging in USA in the past decade or so.
I've noticed that a great many Americans in a certain sector of American society rarely, if ever, have anything good to say about any other nations and the people in them anyway. So I think it's just a certain type of American trait to say things to try to make other countries look small and embarrassed. Even with their own best friend and neighbour and trading partner to the north they do it. So maybe they are feeling threatened? I don't think it makes those Americans look superior when they behave that way, I think it makes them look vastly inferior and worse yet, it makes them look treacherous and unreliable, but they just don't see it that way.
But others on the receiving end of the belittlement do see it for what it really is.
Canada has the wealthiest middle class in the world. They recently surpassed the US.
I'm American, I always find it interesting that people still think we have all these opportunities. The bullcrap peddled by the 1% is alive and going about how everyone can be a millionaire, meanwhile we can't even be the richest middle class- and it's just getting worse.
If things continue like this and corporations are led to control everything even more, more Americans will move to Canada.
And it's total baloney that Canada is more expensive than the US- no, it's more expensive than parts of the US that most people don't want to live. Is Toronto more expensive than NYC, or Vancouver than San Fran, or Montreal than Boston, etc...no. It's more expensive than the rural South.
Places in America where people want to be are just as expensive as anywhere else in the world where people want to be. If you don't like Canada and want to set up shop in Mississippi go ahead and your relatives will be ready to receive you next week, after 90% humidity, third world conditions, and pathetic salaries.
And nevermind healthcare, let's talk education. Private colleges in the US these days run 200k for four years- assuming your kid graduates in four. McGill is less than many US public schools. Canadian parents may earn less, they don't have to save for college like that.
And then good luck to him or getting a job without a graduate degree. He or she can then get indebted from an unregulated bank. Or maybe a nice subprime mortgage because his or her credit will be destroyed.
Maybe the US learns but I doubt it. The millenial generation has been farked. I'm not sure why an educated professional from a country with a wealthier middle class wants to enter that rat race. It won't be this generation but it might be the next looking north.
And it's total baloney that Canada is more expensive than the US- no, it's more expensive than parts of the US that most people don't want to live. Is Toronto more expensive than NYC, or Vancouver than San Fran, or Montreal than Boston, etc...no. It's more expensive than the rural South.
I don't disagree with most of what you said, but in this case you're just flat out wrong. Canada is more expensive, top to bottom, than the U.S. The three US cities you've picked out are among the most expensive in the world. You could certainly compare Vancouver to Seattle, Toronto to Chicago or Houston and get completely inverse results, and a more accurate comparison as well.
There's more than just day to day costs as well. Taxes, and the lack of available deductions increase the financial burden significantly.
Canada has the wealthiest middle class in the world. They recently surpassed the US.
I'm American, I always find it interesting that people still think we have all these opportunities. The bullcrap peddled by the 1% is alive and going about how everyone can be a millionaire, meanwhile we can't even be the richest middle class- and it's just getting worse.
If things continue like this and corporations are led to control everything even more, more Americans will move to Canada.
And it's total baloney that Canada is more expensive than the US- no, it's more expensive than parts of the US that most people don't want to live. Is Toronto more expensive than NYC, or Vancouver than San Fran, or Montreal than Boston, etc...no. It's more expensive than the rural South.
Places in America where people want to be are just as expensive as anywhere else in the world where people want to be. If you don't like Canada and want to set up shop in Mississippi go ahead and your relatives will be ready to receive you next week, after 90% humidity, third world conditions, and pathetic salaries.
And nevermind healthcare, let's talk education. Private colleges in the US these days run 200k for four years- assuming your kid graduates in four. McGill is less than many US public schools. Canadian parents may earn less, they don't have to save for college like that.
And then good luck to him or getting a job without a graduate degree. He or she can then get indebted from an unregulated bank. Or maybe a nice subprime mortgage because his or her credit will be destroyed.
Maybe the US learns but I doubt it. The millenial generation has been farked. I'm not sure why an educated professional from a country with a wealthier middle class wants to enter that rat race. It won't be this generation but it might be the next looking north.
So it's pretty clear that you haven't actually lived in both countries.
Canada is more expensive across the board.
The "wealthiest middle class" claim is shaky due to the high cost of living. You complain about oppurtunities - you think Canada has more opportunity? It has a smaller market, and less jobs to choose from, period. You make it sound like Canada is problem-free, but the issues you list are present in Canada too. You can go live in Seattle and have a similar experience to Vancouver, but have more money in your pocket. If you think Canadians don't "have to save for college like that" you are kidding yourself. The difference between what I payed for school in the US compared to a school in Ontario is about 2,000 a year. The only province with seriously cheaper prices is Quebec, where the price for a resident to attend university is similar to going to US community college.
You are eating up propaganda and fear mongering. Live in Canada, and you'll be singing a different tune. Nice country, but you have a uptopian vision that can't possibly be fulfilled. You have a highly negative outlook that exagerrates the absolute worse case scenarios. It sounds like you are unhappy in either place.
Canada has many great things going for it but it's not a cheap country to live in if you want the bells and whistles. I was actually shocked to hear that my undergrad school (University of Toronto) tuition rates have risen so much over the years since I graduated. An undergrad in Business at UFT now costs ~$100K (tuition + residence) which may actually be more than undergrad business programs at US public schools (e.g. University of Virginia is ~$80K all in with likely higher starting salaries). A top tier US private school is about ~$200K all in which is still considerably higher (but definitely has it's benefits that could pay off). But the absolute costs of Canadian schools seems to have climbed a lot over the years. It's not that cheap or affordable, at least in my field.
In terms of other costs, everyday items from clothes to TVs to cars all cost more in Canada. Tax rates on incomes and consumption taxes on goods and services are all higher. Health care is probably cheaper for most but let's not even get started on real estate - property is very expensive in Canada.
Last edited by johnathanc; 09-25-2014 at 05:50 PM..
So it's pretty clear that you haven't actually lived in both countries.
Canada is more expensive across the board.
The "wealthiest middle class" claim is shaky due to the high cost of living. You complain about oppurtunities - you think Canada has more opportunity? It has a smaller market, and less jobs to choose from, period. You make it sound like Canada is problem-free, but the issues you list are present in Canada too. You can go live in Seattle and have a similar experience to Vancouver, but have more money in your pocket. If you think Canadians don't "have to save for college like that" you are kidding yourself. The difference between what I payed for school in the US compared to a school in Ontario is about 2,000 a year. The only province with seriously cheaper prices is Quebec, where the price for a resident to attend university is similar to going to US community college.
You are eating up propaganda and fear mongering. Live in Canada, and you'll be singing a different tune. Nice country, but you have a uptopian vision that can't possibly be fulfilled. You have a highly negative outlook that exagerrates the absolute worse case scenarios. It sounds like you are unhappy in either place.
You keep harping about how much more expensive it is in Canada vs the U.S but you say it in such general terms.. Both are large countries and COL varies depending on region/city where you live in either... If I were to rent an apartment smack dab in the middle of S.F or NYC - the cost of that apartment would be far more than a comparable one in Toronto.. Yes - Real Estate is pricey in cities like Vancouver and Toronto but how many people in these cities who have invested in the R.E markets in both over the last decade lost money in their investment?... Very few and its actually created a lot of wealth for these people. Rent in Canada is generally a bargain in many places.
As a foreigner, I'm not convinced you know the ins and outs of where to get good deals here either.. For example, have you heard of Urban Planet? You can get surprisingly affordable clothing at this Canadian Retailer so if you don't know about it how can you accurately compare clothing costs. Canadians don't have to shop at overpriced American clothing outlets here - though I must admit OLD Navy in Canada offers decently priced clothes - even compared to the U.S and I've shopped at Old Navy in both countries quite a bit. Are you aware of food prices at No Frills or Food Basics in comparison to other American Supermarkets to make an accurate comparison? Is Dollar Tree that much cheaper than Dollarama for comparable goods? What about a an American Value Villiage equivalent - is there one and if so have you compared costs for comparable goods? If I want to I can go to IKEA and get a 1 dollar Hot Dog and 1 Dollar Ice cream cone - cheap lunch and while i'm sure you can do the same in the U.S as I've mentioned - In Canada there is almost always a value priced equivalent. All you say is that Canada has a higher COL but you provide no real detailed comparative statistics other than you have lived in both countries - great so maybe when you were in Canada ya got ripped off because you didn't know where to shop.. I have actually outlined how much I make and how much I spend per month in this very thread living in Canada's largest city - I wish more people from the U.S would be so open about their income vs expenses where they live so that we can get more meaty specifics instead of general 'observations'.
Something else to consider - even electronic goods may not be that much of a bargain in the U.S vs Canada anymore... I recently compared the cost of a Samsung Galaxy tab 4 at Best Buy Canada and Best Buy in the U.S and cost was exactly the same. Another thing, this is the age of free shipping and shopping without borders...
One thing that is for sure and this is something you can't wish away is that the Median Income for Families in Canada is equivalent to same in the U.S and this wasn't the case even a decade ago... So even if overall COL is still higher in Canada when accounting for Cost of goods/services, educational costs, health costs and everything else over the course of the life a family in either country - the truth is Canadian families have been outperforming U.S families in terms of income and wealth over the last decade and a bit and ultimately for most individuals - there isn't that much of a difference anymore. In 2000 that wasn't the case, An American family made quite a bit more - not anymore!
Mexico is a far better option if you ask me. Not nearly as far, wonderful tropical beaches, good food, etc.
I don't mind the distance actually and Thai culture, history, food, people and lifestyle is more appealing to me - Nothing against Mexican people, food or history mind you. Plus I can visit Cambodia and Thailand readily and access Air Asia discount flights to such places as Indonesia, Malaysia the Phillipines etc so yeah I also think my Canadian dollar would stretch further in Thailand than it would in Mexico. Having said that, yes retirement in Mexico is a better value proposition for a Canadian or American than our home countries - absolutely!
In terms of other costs, everyday items from clothes to TVs to cars all cost more in Canada. Tax rates on incomes and consumption taxes on goods and services are all higher. Health care is probably cheaper for most but let's not even get started on real estate - property is very expensive in Canada.
Not everyone needs to buy a condo or house in Canada.. Nor do we have to buy expensive clothes or Electronics and get ripped off.. When you are in Toronto next - instead of shopping for clothes at overpriced clothing stores think about the plethora of value priced options available.. It is foolish to just dismiss them as poorer quality as well. Can you buy 1 dollar Pine Sol at Dollarama - you betcha!
Cars are pricier here as are some other items that fall under 'sin taxes' like cigs and alcohol but you do have to weigh other factors as well. Education and Healthcare is still probably cheaper for the average Canadian versus the Average American over the cost of a life - especially for those who have kiddies - so all these things need to be weighed over the length of the life of an individual or family. Heck if I drive from Toronto to Windsor on the 401 I don't pay toll charges - If I drive across NY State I do (well unless I take slower single lane highways instead of an Interstate) - minor yes but everything needs to be weighed in order to come to a meaningful accurate conclusions.
If you bought a house in Toronto 5 years ago would you be that bad off? How much would you have paid for it and what would be the value of it today... How about if I bought a 700K home today - how much will it be worth in 5 years... Sure its pricey but its also an asset whose value generally has a good track record of going UP not down or stagnant.
1) I myself am a Canadian immigrant. I applied as a graduate student back in the US, with nearly zero work experience and my application was accept within 18 months.
To get US PR it would be a much more complicated and challenging process. I wouldn't be able to apply be behalf of myself using my credentials. I would need an employer in the US to sponsor. Most employers don't. Among those which do, they won't sponsor you immediately - usually you need to wait for a couple of years. And unless I have published a ton of academic papers on international magazine (there is a fast track for those people), I would need to wait for a minimum of 5 years during which period I can't lose or change my job. It took most of my friends between 5-8 years to obtain US green card.
But Canada immigration got tougher after that, but it is still easier than the US. We have a point based system here which means you can apply on your own. In the US, you need to find an employer first.
2) The Canadian experience category made it far easier to immigrate. If you receive a degree from a Canadian university, you will be considered first and it might take as little as 6 months (normally 1-1.5 years) to be approved. You don't need a job to do that. In the US, all the master's and phd graduates struggle because there is no such fast track category. They need to find a job first and then do what I said in point 1.
3) If it hasn't changed, a student at least two years into a phd program (in certain fields I guess) will be automatically eligible to apply for PR. In the US, you can't. you need to find a job first.
4) In Canada once you receive a degree after studying for at least 2 years, you automatically have a work visa which is valid for 3 years which allows you to work for anyone in Canada. With a job and some experience, applying for PR will be much easier. In the US, even if you receive a Phd from Harvard, you are still not eligible to work in the US. You need a company that is willing to sponsor you work visa, then refer to 1)
5) In the US, the vast majority (80%+) of greencards are family based, which means you need some family member in the US with PR status to sponsor you. In Canada, I think most are economy/skills based which mean you can just depend on your own skills.
I have personally know many in the US who applied for Canadian PR as a backup plan (if they can't stay in the US any more, such as losing their jobs), they would come to Canada. I haven't heard any case where one uses US green card as a backup plan, because if one has a green card, he is most likely moving to the US (I actually know someone who is working in Canada although he has a greencard from family, but he hates the US for personal reason).
This is precisely why i think it is a more fair process to obtain a Canada PR. In US it is all about family quotas and lottery system. I like that canada calculates our points based on qualifications and not family. The employer route is usually just about the only route that is an option for many qualified aspirants. I will always love this about canada.
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I also think my Canadian dollar would stretch further in Thailand than it would in Mexico. Having said that, yes retirement in Mexico is a better value proposition for a Canadian or American than our home countries - absolutely!