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Lyndarn and Canadian Citizen, I agree with you on the bankruptcies as well. According to this Harvard study 62% of filing respondents stated that medical expenses contributed to their personal bankruptcy filing (http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankruptcy_s...uptcy-2009.pdf) This was one of the major reasons Healthcare reform was necessary in the US. Thankfully the Obama administration used the study I posted above when writing the new law.
Now of course we are only really one year into full HC reform so it is difficult to say exactly how much the ACA has and will reduce medical bankruptcies. However we have the State of Massachusetts to look to as a glimpse into the future of the ACA. Professor Daniel Austin from Northeastern University published a study detailing the effect the 2005 Massachusetts HC reform law had on medical bankruptcies. Prior to HC reform in 2005, medical bankruptcies in MA mirrored the rest of the nation. Post reform that number dropped to 9% in the first phase of reform and now currently (2014 the study was published) that number sits at 3%. Of course medical bills can linger for many years, so it will take a while for that number to hit 0, but we can all do the math and see the direction this is heading. Here is a link to Professor Austin and his published works on medical and personal bankruptcy (NUSL)
Now hopefully someone can show me that study on how much Canadians pay for HC vs Americans that I requested. I have yet to find one.
So now the cost of living difference between the US and Canada has grown into a bigger discussion - quality of life and ability to sustain that quality till the "end."
Yes, other posters have rightly said that on the whole the day-to-day things you buy cost a bit more in Canada. This is due to the factors mentioned - lower population in Canada making quantity purchase more difficult, geographical problems getting the goods to the buyer, etc.etc.
Where Canadians have it all over us in the USA is that feeling of security knowing that if you have a medical emergency of any kind, it will be taken care of. Period. Yes, you've paid for health care in your taxes, but not having a huge medical bill hit you when you can least afford it is peace of mind. Prescription drugs cost significantly less also, because of government bargaining with drug companies to get the best price.
Where US citizens have it all over Canadians is in choice of inexpensive goods and, to a certain extent, cheaper labor.
There's goods and bads in both places. I'd like to create a composite country taking all the "goods" from each, and move in permanently.
edwardsyzzurphands, your post came in just as I was posting my above note. Health care in Canada is by province, not government-wide, so it would be different in each province.
edwardsyzzurphands, your post came in just as I was posting my above note. Health care in Canada is by province, not government-wide, so it would be different in each province.
Oh I am well aware. My questioning is somewhat tongue in cheek as I know it is impossible to compare both, especially when one payment is linked directly to taxes. So when people just flippantly say (X is more expensive than Y) they should be questioned and a source quoted.
The only study I have read comparing the two is from the Fraser Institute. I do not need to go into detail why that would not be a reliable source (Their study came to the conclusion that Canadians pay more out of pocket vs Americans) Using the Fraser Institute as a source would be similar to me randomly googling a study from an unvetted source or quoting some right wing ideologue organization like the Cato Institute in the US.
I am not really sure why the truth and validity of this is even debated. I can sincerely not think of ANYTHING cheaper here than in the US. Not food, not entertainment, not housing, not fuel... Is there actually anyone who regularly travels between the two countries that debates this?!
From personal experience:
Housing in a metro area with comparable (or even better) job opportunity, assuming similar non-traffic travel time to work is currently about 300% more here in Toronto versus a city we're considering, Phoenix, and that isn't even factoring in the finish and appeal of the house. That's just comparing detached houses in similar quality areas. If I am being totally honest, the houses in Phoenix are in better areas of the city than the Toronto area houses for 3+ times the price. We've also considered Orlando, and the gap is a bit smaller but the houses we looked at are still about half the price as in Toronto when making relevant, true-to-life comparisons. Again, the houses in Orlando are in better areas of Orlando than houses twice the price in the GTA.
Our business would expect at least double our current profitability, based on industry average. We'd sell more product, at higher profit, and the seasonality we experience here in our industry would be factored out. We've made analysis in Phoenix and Orlando specifically.
We travel routinely to the US. Dining in NY, FL, AZ, CO, and NM on average is 2/3 to 1/2 the price of comparable meals in Canada. NY is a bit more than FL, CO, and AZ, and NM has cheaper options we haven't seen in Canada in decades. Within Canada, AB tends to be cheaper than BC and ON (we've lived in all three provinces)
Gas is about 30-40% cheaper in the US than Canada, in our experience. We regularly drive in NY, FL, AZ, and NM.
We often buy things from the US (clothes, auto parts) because EVEN with current exchange rate, and EVEN with shipping, it's still cheaper. The difference this will make when we do relocate and are spending US currency while being able to enjoy free shipping within the US will make Canadian items we currently buy about 50% more expensive than in the US. This is obviously not something we enjoy right now, the gap is much smaller, but this point also doesn't factor in the myriad of things we cannot even get up here because they're simply not available.
Lastly, home and auto insurance in the US will be a literal FRACTION of what we pay up here. So much so that it isn't even funny. We're talking less than 30% of our current expense to insure our home and cars in either FL or AZ, as calculated a few weeks ago.
In other words, we say things are more expensive up here BECAUSE THEY ARE! At least the things in day to day life, in comparable cities (with comparable opportunity) AND you guys get better selection. Note that an intelligent Canadian will factor in the cost of health care when considering relocating to the US, so the price advantage isn't QUITE as big of a gap since health insurance is so expensive... But it's still considerably cheaper to live in the US even factoring that in.
Last edited by AikenHorses; 09-07-2015 at 12:52 AM..
I am not really sure why the truth and validity of this is even debated. I can sincerely not think of ANYTHING cheaper here than in the US. Not food, not entertainment, not housing, not fuel... Is there actually anyone who regularly travels between the two countries that debates this?!
From personal experience:
Housing in a metro area with comparable (or even better) job opportunity, assuming similar non-traffic travel time to work is currently about 300% more here in Toronto versus a city we're considering, Phoenix, and that isn't even factoring in the finish and appeal of the house. That's just comparing detached houses in similar quality areas. If I am being totally honest, the houses in Phoenix are in better areas of the city than the Toronto area houses for 3+ times the price. We've also considered Orlando, and the gap is a bit smaller but the houses we looked at are still about half the price as in Toronto when making relevant, true-to-life comparisons. Again, the houses in Orlando are in better areas of Orlando than houses twice the price in the GTA.
Our business would expect at least double our current profitability, based on industry average. We'd sell more product, at higher profit, and the seasonality we experience here in our industry would be factored out. We've made analysis in Phoenix and Orlando specifically.
We travel routinely to the US. Dining in NY, FL, AZ, CO, and NM on average is 2/3 to 1/2 the price of comparable meals in Canada. NY is a bit more than FL, CO, and AZ, and NM has cheaper options we haven't seen in Canada in decades. Within Canada, AB tends to be cheaper than BC and ON (we've lived in all three provinces)
Gas is about 30-40% cheaper in the US than Canada, in our experience. We regularly drive in NY, FL, AZ, and NM.
We often buy things from the US (clothes, auto parts) because EVEN with current exchange rate, and EVEN with shipping, it's still cheaper. The difference this will make when we do relocate and are spending US currency while being able to enjoy free shipping within the US will make Canadian items we currently buy about 50% more expensive than in the US. This is obviously not something we enjoy right now, the gap is much smaller, but this point also doesn't factor in the myriad of things we cannot even get up here because they're simply not available.
Lastly, home and auto insurance in the US will be a literal FRACTION of what we pay up here. So much so that it isn't even funny. We're talking less than 30% of our current expense to insure our home and cars in either FL or AZ, as calculated a few weeks ago.
In other words, we say things are more expensive up here BECAUSE THEY ARE! At least the things in day to day life, in comparable cities (with comparable opportunity) AND you guys get better selection. Note that an intelligent Canadian will factor in the cost of health care when considering relocating to the US, so the price advantage isn't QUITE as big of a gap since health insurance is so expensive... But it's still considerably cheaper to live in the US even factoring that in.
While I agree with a lot of what you're saying....
I really think you should be comparing Toronto area real estate prices with US Cities
like NYC LA SF and Boston.....much closer
Yeah, Orlando Phoenix and Houston are deals ...but not everywhere.....
even parts of south Florida like Naples are expensive too.
While I agree with a lot of what you're saying....
I really think you should be comparing Toronto area real estate prices with US Cities
like NYC LA SF and Boston.....much closer
Yeah, Orlando Phoenix and Houston are deals ...but not everywhere.....
even parts of south Florida like Naples are expensive too.
Agreed! I did a numbeo comparison between S.F and Toronto (just for general price differences obviously you can get things cheaper on sale in both cities or just find general bargains but I think its a decent general comparison) and while the average person makes more in S.F, things cost a lot more than in Toronto - particularly rent but everything from clothes to food is just more expensive in S.F!.. There are way too many factors at play here to just come to a sweeping conclusion - prices for goods and services vary from region to region and city to city in both countries..
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
For comparison purposes, I assumed, it's the same item, lol
Exactly. Here in BC Canada I can't find a wine, even in the govt. stores, for less than 15, PLUS 2.30 in sales and other taxes, which is over 17. and almost 20. in the Pub and convenient but private stores.
And we don't even sell the one gallon wines (swill) of down south. Well, maybe Quebec for all I know. There a major difference just between provinces on prices.
Exactly. Here in BC Canada I can't find a wine, even in the govt. stores, for less than 15, PLUS 2.30 in sales and other taxes, which is over 17. and almost 20. in the Pub and convenient but private stores.
And we don't even sell the one gallon wines (swill) of down south. Well, maybe Quebec for all I know. There a major difference just between provinces on prices.
I think we're slimmer up here for a reason.
Really are you talking 750ml or 1500 ml? In Ontario you can get 750 ml bottles of wine for under 7 bucks and even a Chilean Shiraz for 8.45
14.95 another Chilean brand and a cabernet Sauvignon (I've seen even cheaper bottle at 12.45 for some Italian and Canadian brands - French Cross etc) that are 1500 ml bottles.
So now the cost of living difference between the US and Canada has grown into a bigger discussion - quality of life and ability to sustain that quality till the "end."
Yes, other posters have rightly said that on the whole the day-to-day things you buy cost a bit more in Canada. This is due to the factors mentioned - lower population in Canada making quantity purchase more difficult, geographical problems getting the goods to the buyer, etc.etc.
Where Canadians have it all over us in the USA is that feeling of security knowing that if you have a medical emergency of any kind, it will be taken care of. Period. Yes, you've paid for health care in your taxes, but not having a huge medical bill hit you when you can least afford it is peace of mind. Prescription drugs cost significantly less also, because of government bargaining with drug companies to get the best price.
Where US citizens have it all over Canadians is in choice of inexpensive goods and, to a certain extent, cheaper labor.
There's goods and bads in both places. I'd like to create a composite country taking all the "goods" from each, and move in permanently.
When you find that country let me know.
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If I drank wine I'd move to Ontario from BC
