Trump Blasts Canada Over NAFTA, Protectionism

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by botticelli

Here I heard many people telling me they are abstaining.

I think abstaining is more democratic than "voting for the less of the evils" - which is something I despise. If you don't really support either, don't vote, instead of voting based on who you dislike more.

I really can't support the argument that everyone should vote to A to prevent B from winning. This is sad democracy.

There was also the "vote en blanc" option.

[509]

Originally Posted by fusion2

Not surprising. I knew as soon as they elected this Buffoon that it was going to be bad. Sad thing is nobody wins in all this. Americans will lose, Canadians will lose, Mexicans will lose....Our Continent loses but Trump, now that is a winner

Oh please. Both Canada and Mexico are protectionist countries. Now the United States is joining them due to Trump.

The loser in all this....was the American worker. The Elites in the United States thought it was worthwhile to lose American jobs to prop up Mexico. All Trump is proposing is that the American worker be protected, just the same as Canada does with their workers.

I lived in Canada. There is nothing wrong with protecting your workers and corporations. Canada is really good about that. The United States with its Elites decided that raising Mexico, China and other countries to middle-class status was worth the loss of American middle-class jobs.

Trump IS changing US policy.

Large American corporations will lose since they are world based. Canadians will lose as well as Mexicans. American workers will benefit. If the world wants a stable United States to provide leadership it will need a functioning middle class. Otherwise it will join the rest of world in chaos.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by 509

Oh please. Both Canada and Mexico are protectionist countries. Now the United States is joining them due to Trump.

The loser in all this....was the American worker. The Elites in the United States thought it was worthwhile to lose American jobs to prop up Mexico. All Trump is proposing is that the American worker be protected, just the same as Canada does with their workers.

I lived in Canada. There is nothing wrong with protecting your workers and corporations. Canada is really good about that. The United States with its Elites decided that raising Mexico, China and other countries to middle-class status was worth the loss of American middle-class jobs.

Trump IS changing US policy.

Large American corporations will lose since they are world based. Canadians will lose as well as Mexicans. American workers will benefit. If the world wants a stable United States to provide leadership it will need a functioning middle class. Otherwise it will join the rest of world in chaos.

Every trade deal has elements of protectionism and you can't say the U.S doesn't have those elements. The U.S didn't negotiate NAFTA in a bubble. Three Presidents - 2 republicans and 1 democrat crafted NAFTA on behalf of the U.S including Reagan. Suddenly now three U.S Presidents were out to shaft the American worker. I find that hard to believe but sure some industries lose and others win - that is all part of trade agreements. Not related to NAFTA but as much as the tariffs on lumber on Canada will benefit some lumber producers in the U.S - ultimately the American consumer will lose because they pay more for their new house. That has a trickle down impact on the entire American economy because that money they could have used for other things now lines the pocket of wealthy American lumber producers. It may create some jobs but others are lost in the process and the American consumer pays more.

Last information from your State Department has the U.S with a trade surplus with Canada to the tune of 12 Billion dollars. That's right - we buy 12 billion dollars more in goods/services from you than you do from us. Not to mention a steady stream of energy at favourable pricing that was a big part of the negotiations that keep the lights on in your house and the fuel running through your vehicle. If not for Canadian energy as it relates to NAFTA you'd simply be paying more for energy so it is far from being as one sided as you think.

NAFTA isn't just you buy from us we buy from you type of thing. It is companies many of them large U.S companies that produce things - a final product and sell that product to the world. There are components of that product that are made in Mexico or in Canada but if not for that than said companies would be at a competitive disadvantage vs other global companies in say Europe or Asia. They would have to pay American workers more so therefore they'd go out of business. Thing is you may gain jobs in some areas but you lose more in others. If large American MNC's aren't paying joe blow enough in the U.S don't blame other countries!

As for the American worker re manufacturing - welcome to the 21st century. Ontario has lost over 300K manufacturing jobs in the last 15 years. It is called a changing world. Countries either adapt or not. If Trump bring back coal jobs to West Virginia it is at the expense of green jobs elsewhere in your own country not to mention the health of your nation and the world.

Quite frankly - i'm kind of hopeful Trump does terminate NAFTA - if not him maybe Trudeau and Nieto should. This way we can test it out and actually see if we all benefit or lose. That all said, dispense with the woe is the American worker in all this. Some Americans in here are more than happy to point out your higher per cap GDP than in Canada and most countries in the world, your lower COL and your lower unemployment rate so dispense with all this victimization crap because those cheap goods you love to consume are about to become a whole lot more expensive under your new paradigm. All said, Make up your mind - everyone else is sick of your drama when it comes to this. Make a decision and go with it! We will adjust and learn not to fall for the same bs again when the U.S wants to reintroduce trade deals because Americans are crying that everything is too goddamned expensive.

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by 509

Oh please. Both Canada and Mexico are protectionist countries. Now the United States is joining them due to Trump.

The loser in all this....was the American worker. The Elites in the United States thought it was worthwhile to lose American jobs to prop up Mexico. All Trump is proposing is that the American worker be protected, just the same as Canada does with their workers.

I lived in Canada. There is nothing wrong with protecting your workers and corporations. Canada is really good about that. The United States with its Elites decided that raising Mexico, China and other countries to middle-class status was worth the loss of American middle-class jobs.

Trump IS changing US policy.

Large American corporations will lose since they are world based. Canadians will lose as well as Mexicans. American workers will benefit. If the world wants a stable United States to provide leadership it will need a functioning middle class. Otherwise it will join the rest of world in chaos.

Oh please! If you lived in Canada when The FTA and later NAFTA became conversation you know no one wanted it but the U.S. due to their 300 million consumer base giving them immense leverage.

I take it you were never here working in Canada through the era of wage and price controls that served very well to limit wages but did next to nothing to limit prices established by the market demands Protecting jobs my arse. You start with a strawman then service it with nonsense.

The U.S. learned by watching Big Pharma with it's huge profit base from raping the public using that cash to buy up other drug companies world wide throughout the seventies and early eighties to then shut them down after acquiring their patents. The U.S. saw that rainbow and went for it by proclaiming to Canada and Mexico "if you want to do business with us you'll sign on to NAFTA".

How is it you think those BIG American world wide corporations got to be that way?

That all worked well for them for awhile when before the NAFTA ink had dried, all those retarded inbred right to work states saw an influx of manufacturing moving out of Ontario to take advantage of a workforce that would work for a bottle of Jack and a can of Red Man chaw a week. Then the tide turned further south and the cacophony whining began in earnest.

Does the U.S. have a national carbon tax yet? Canada does. What does that say for Canada job protectionism as compared to the U.S. Gimme a break here!

The only truthful thing you've stated is the American Elites running the show. No argument there.

Trumps a lost cause and his idiotic MAGA chant ignores the fact the days of the middle class of medium educated Walmart workers and truck drivers enjoying a three bedroom bungalow in the burbs are gone forever and NEVER coming back until America educates it's people to a higher norm.

If he forces compliance it will come at even further destruction of that middle class because the only thing that will entice all those companies still moving off shore or buying off shore to do otherwise is if wage rates go even further into the tank to enable competition with third world labour rates.

Real "Protectionism" can be illustrated very graphically by remembering what happened to Sadam Hussein when he commenced selling oil using currency other than the greenback. Libya was making the same noises and that had to be stopped tuite-suite with Saudi Arabia demanding something be done or else. Nobody shived-a-git over Kuwait being invaded. That was Ceasar Dressing for maintenance of a reserve currency salad.

Now THAT'S protectionism.