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I was looking for a thread title that Zoisite said would be about this topic but could not find it after searching. i had originally posted a reply in "Canadian News" but deleted it from there.
For those who are not following it, BC built a new LNG terminal in Kitimat and an NEB approved pipeline.
Final destination of BC LNG ex-Kitimat is Asia (Japan, Korea, China, et al).
Interesting that BC is okay with building pipelines of their own to deliver their own BC domestic LNG overseas in tankers. It's okay for BC but not for Alberta or Sask. to use Canadian ports to get their product to markets other than the USA.
Horgan is two-faced. His government is hiding the degree of danger transporting LNG. To support its struggling advocacy for as many as 20 proposed liquefied natural gas export terminals in British Columbia’s coastal communities, the provincial government routinely boasts that the industry has an enviable record of public safety.
Experts agree the chief hazard is a liquid spill, which would set off a series of events usually ending with fire or an explosion. At first the cold liquid, heavier than air, would form a pool that would evaporate into a cloud. Wind or a structural barrier such as building could direct that cloud to an ignition source. And that’s when a big fire or explosion could happen.
So when the NEB approves LNG pipelines AND TransMountain, BC choses to ignore NEB and only accept the LNG approval for their own provincial benefit. Sleazy protectionism of the highest order.
I was looking for a thread title that Zoisite said would be about this topic but could not find it after searching. i had originally posted a reply in "Canadian News" but deleted it from there. .......
I never started a thread about this topic. I had said last week that I felt bad that the "Canadian News" thread had been highjacked on more than one occasion with ongoing debates about the topic of gas and oil. And I said then that I wished that a separate thread devoted to this one topic had been started a few months ago because I do feel that it's a topic worthy of it's own thread.
However, I wouldn't have started a thread about it myself because my own strong feelings about the topic of global gas and oil, and in particular Canadian produced gas and oil, is a rather unpopular sentiment. I strongly feel that Canada should not be exporting any gas or oil to any other countries anywhere in the world. I strongly resent the fact that Canada, and Alberta in particular, has been exporting it irresponsibly for decades to greedy consumers who are using it irresponsibly. I strongly feel that Canada should not be taking it out of the ground for any reason other than in limited amounts strictly for Canada's own very frugal and responsible domestic use.
So there was no point in me starting a thread about it. The entire toxic subject makes me feel sick and furious and grief stricken. But I am glad to see you started this thread now, although to be honest I do not like your choice of wording for the title, and if the thread carries on I will undoubtedly chime in with a personal rant from time to time.
I never started a thread about this topic. I had said last week that I felt bad that the "Canadian News" thread had been highjacked on more than one occasion with ongoing debates about the topic of gas and oil. And I said then that I wished that a separate thread devoted to this one topic had been started a few months ago because I do feel that it's a topic worthy of it's own thread.
However, I wouldn't have started a thread about it myself because my own strong feelings about the topic of global gas and oil, and in particular Canadian produced gas and oil, is a rather unpopular sentiment. I strongly feel that Canada should not be exporting any gas or oil to any other countries anywhere in the world. I strongly resent the fact that Canada, and Alberta in particular, has been exporting it irresponsibly for decades to greedy consumers who are using it irresponsibly. I strongly feel that Canada should not be taking it out of the ground for any reason other than in limited amounts strictly for Canada's own very frugal and responsible domestic use.
So there was no point in me starting a thread about it. The entire toxic subject makes me feel sick and furious and grief stricken. But I am glad to see you started this thread now, although to be honest I do not like your choice of wording for the title, and if the thread carries on I will undoubtedly chime in with a personal rant from time to time.
.
I know it would be an act of futility to try to convince people yourself included to reconsider your position yet I would like you to at least understand where I am coming from. I have studied and researched this topic for some months now. I have strong feelings against the BC government. As a former long-term resident of BC I am not clueless about how its residents treasure their environment. It is no different from how much Albertans protect our own environment.
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The entire toxic subject makes me feel sick and furious and grief stricken.
I can claim the same feelings but not for the reason you do. We are attempting to move away from our dependence on US trade born out of the need not to be victim of the USA's unpredictability. It is because my protectionist Canadian neighbor has betrayed me, who has delayed a project causing an economic loss of $40 million a day and the withdrawal of investment in our province not only in oil projects, denies us access to markets from Canadian ports located in your province, and my personal life detrimentally affected when health care programs are cut(I depend upon government assistance). BC delay tactics sound more like a Trump move. Your former premier approved this project after much convincing and now you ware backing out of the agreement.
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I strongly feel that Canada should not be taking it out of the ground for any reason other than in limited amounts strictly for Canada's own very frugal and responsible domestic use.
I can point my finger at BC's LNG industry and echo your sentiment that it should not be taken out of the ground either. Tit for tat. This is where the hypocrisy lies.
Under NAFTA the US has a condition that Canada has to export 75% of our oil to that country (at cheap prices mind you).
"According to the ‘proportionality clause’, article 605, Canada has to reserve a fixed ratio of its hydrocarbons production for export to U.S. customers regardless of domestic needs or federal policy. This effectively gives American companies considerable control over Canada’s resources. Under the deal, 75 percent of all oil produced and imported, and 50 percent of gas needs to be exported to the U.S."This means that even under exceptional circumstances, such as the boycott of 1973 by Arab countries, Canadian oil earmarked for export could not be diverted for domestic purposes. Due to a lack of transportation options between east and west and the proportionality clause, most of the oil in Eastern Canada is imported. In 2016 around 900.000 barrels a day came from several sources costing around $14,4 billion per year. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oi...adian-Oil.html
The boon this article espouses is not possible without cooperation from our fellow Canadians. And until the world has stopped using oil as fuel it is needed and our Canadian oil has to go somewhere just like BC's LNG.
Quebec and refineries in the Maritimes are buying oil from foreign sources including South America and the Middle East (no pipeline from Alberta here).
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I strongly resent the fact that Canada, and Alberta in particular, has been exporting it irresponsibly for decades to greedy consumers who are using it irresponsibly.
I strongly resent BC (and Quebec) for resisting.
I don't understand what you mean; What is irresponsible about exporting? What greedy customers? What is using oil irresponsibly?
Last edited by kitty61; 09-24-2018 at 02:28 PM..
Reason: additional text
The oil tanker contains over 30 times more energy in about the same space.
I'm not worried about the safety of LNG tankers. They have a great safety record. Oil tankers also do. You can point to accidents, but the record is relatively good.
An LNG spill would not poison much wildlife since it would eventually dissipate in the atmosphere. The environmental damage compared to an oil tanker is a joke.
I also don't really take people seriously who complain about tankers when they own and drive a car and use heating and air conditioning. Anyone who does is part of the overall demand ( "part of the problem"), and shouldn't complain. When I see them on my bus or out on the bike trails ( with me ), I might allow a little grumpiness. I still own a little car and drive a little, so I proudly say that I too am "part of the problem," but I don't care or feel guilty or anything.
I DO know that LNG exports create a great deal of good jobs that don't generally require a college degree.
I DO know that using NG as a "bridge fuel" until we create enough renewable energy is a great thing that replaces much dirtier energy sources.
The LNG contained in a large LNG tanker is up to 9.4 million cubic feet.
pou course, the amount of oil contained in a large oil tanker is 2 million barrels.
The oil tanker contains over 30 times more energy in about the same space.
I'm not worried about the safety of LNG tankers. They have a great safety record. Oil tankers also do. You can point to accidents, but the record is relatively good.
An LNG spill would not poison much wildlife since it would eventually dissipate in the atmosphere. The environmental damage compared to an oil tanker is a joke.
I also don't really take people seriously who complain about tankers when they own and drive a car and use heating and air conditioning. Anyone who does is part of the overall demand ( "part of the problem"), and shouldn't complain. When I see them on my bus or out on the bike trails ( with me ), I might allow a little grumpiness. I still own a little car and drive a little, so I proudly say that I too am "part of the problem," but I don't care or feel guilty or anything.
I DO know that LNG exports create a great deal of good jobs that don't generally require a college degree.
I DO know that using NG as a "bridge fuel" until we create enough renewable energy is a great thing that replaces much dirtier energy sources.
i think you missed my point. i am comparing domestic LNG being okay for BC but Canadian oil not being okay for BC therefore she blocks non-BC energy from reaching Canadian ports located in that province.
If you read the links i posted you would know that the cloud does not dissipate insitu but moves and is buffeted by prevailing breezes and "bounces" off structures . It may not poison but when a cloud meets spark there is a fire/explosion.
People who are following the building of pipelines in Alberta and BC such as I am watching, we are not surprised the BC government has used the climate change card by promoting LNG as the best remedy for reducing harm to the environment because it burns cleaner. BC building pipeline of their own to transport LNG to tide water should not be surprised that where was a gas explosion along the pipeline near Prince George, BC. today. Whilst Horgan and his minions are celebrating the building of their own pipeline and are receivint NEB approval and back slapping from Trudeau, the people of BC are being hoodwinked.
Burning natural gas produces carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. The majority of scientists believe that
increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, caused in large part by fossil fuel use, could have long-term effects on the global climate.
The extraction, distribution, and storage of natural gas result in the leakage of methane—a powerful global warming gas 34 times stronger than CO2 at trapping heat over a 100-year period—which diminishes the climate advantages of natural gas over coal.
Then BCers should stop complaining about TransMountain expansion. The very few First Nations that did not sign a partnership agreement do not live in the lands where the pipeline twining will happen.
A man's epic battle with the oil and gas industry. In the 1990s, natural gas wells were drilled near the home of Reverend Wiebo Ludwig and his clan in Alberta. Soon after, livestock began to die, and the Christian community started experiencing health problems, including a series of miscarriages.After 5 years of being ignored by the oil and gas industry, Ludwig decided to fight for his land and his family's survival.
People who are following the building of pipelines in Alberta and BC such as I am watching, we are not surprised the BC government has used the climate change card by promoting LNG as the best remedy for reducing harm to the environment because it burns cleaner. BC building pipeline of their own to transport LNG to tide water should not be surprised that where was a gas explosion along the pipeline near Prince George, BC. today. Whilst Horgan and his minions are celebrating the building of their own pipeline and are receivint NEB approval and back slapping from Trudeau, the people of BC are being hoodwinked.
Burning natural gas produces carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. The majority of scientists believe that
increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, caused in large part by fossil fuel use, could have long-term effects on the global climate.
The extraction, distribution, and storage of natural gas result in the leakage of methane—a powerful global warming gas 34 times stronger than CO2 at trapping heat over a 100-year period—which diminishes the climate advantages of natural gas over coal.
Then BCers should stop complaining about TransMountain expansion. The very few First Nations that did not sign a partnership agreement do not live in the lands where the pipeline twining will happen.
A man's epic battle with the oil and gas industry. In the 1990s, natural gas wells were drilled near the home of Reverend Wiebo Ludwig and his clan in Alberta. Soon after, livestock began to die, and the Christian community started experiencing health problems, including a series of miscarriages.After 5 years of being ignored by the oil and gas industry, Ludwig decided to fight for his land and his family's survival.
I wouldn't roll Wiebo out. He's a nut case and a terrorist.
The oil tanker contains over 30 times more energy in about the same space.
I'm not worried about the safety of LNG tankers. They have a great safety record. Oil tankers also do. You can point to accidents, but the record is relatively good.
An LNG spill would not poison much wildlife since it would eventually dissipate in the atmosphere. The environmental damage compared to an oil tanker is a joke.
I also don't really take people seriously who complain about tankers when they own and drive a car and use heating and air conditioning. Anyone who does is part of the overall demand ( "part of the problem"), and shouldn't complain. When I see them on my bus or out on the bike trails ( with me ), I might allow a little grumpiness. I still own a little car and drive a little, so I proudly say that I too am "part of the problem," but I don't care or feel guilty or anything.
I DO know that LNG exports create a great deal of good jobs that don't generally require a college degree.
I DO know that using NG as a "bridge fuel" until we create enough renewable energy is a great thing that replaces much dirtier energy sources.
In the meantime BCers don't want to drive their gasoline fueled cars because they now own electric but have a tough time finding any recharging stations to make electric feasible. Until Canadians respect one another's right to trade, there will be this hypocritical BC government doing it their own way and not the Canadian way.
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An LNG spill would not poison much wildlife since it would eventually dissipate in the atmosphere. The environmental damage compared to an oil tanker is a joke.
Not so much of a joke as you think.
It's one day since a gas explosion in an Enbridge LNG pipeline near Prince George, I would say there are a lot of dead animals burnt and blown up as a result. This time there were no human casualties. https://youtu.be/BN-8M63uZ6w https://youtu.be/uBAgvXPw1aI
Unlike oil, NG (natural gas) has to be liquefied for transport by condensing it to a liquid form by cryogenic cooling it to below -162C.
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It consumes huge amounts of water to cool the NG and to frack the NG from the ground. Ground water is contaminated and fugitive gas does escape into the atmosphere. It's not clean energy when you include the whole process. Delena Angrignon on comments YouTube
In the meantime BCers don't want to drive their gasoline fueled cars because they now own electric but have a tough time finding any recharging stations to make electric feasible. Until Canadians respect one another's right to trade, there will be this hypocritical BC government doing it their own way and not the Canadian way.
Not so much of a joke as you think.
It's one day since a gas explosion in an Enbridge LNG pipeline near Prince George, I would say there are a lot of dead animals burnt and blown up as a result. This time there were no human casualties. https://youtu.be/BN-8M63uZ6w https://youtu.be/uBAgvXPw1aI
Unlike oil, NG (natural gas) has to be liquefied for transport by condensing it to a liquid form by cryogenic cooling it to below -162C.
Just a note about charging stations. In BC there are literally over 1000 PUBLIC charging stations and more private ones, such as those in parkades and ones that are being fitted in condo complexes. The numbers are growing daily.
Superchargers are growing in number as well, which is better for longer haul trips.
Friends drive a Telsa and love it and have never been in a position where they couldn't find a charger when needed, and they do drives hundred of k's out of Vancouver.
Electric is feasible now.
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LNG pipeline explodes near Prince George , BC
