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Old 12-17-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,555,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Theatre (as opposed to Theater) often seems to be used as a posh/chic thing in certain parts of the U.S.
More than you ever wanted to know.

Difference Between Theatre and Theater | Difference Between | Theatre vs Theater
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am pretty sure that a number of those things in your list were never referred to with the British word by native-born Canadians, because they "arrived" in Canada as innovations from the U.S., with the label they bore from that country.


English-speaking Canadians have always said truck, hood, trunk and elevator ever since those things have existed, AFAIK.
The only one on BruSan's list that I've heard used is hob. However it didn't refer to the whole range/stove/cooker etc...but to what you would call an element on an electric stove. The stove has four hobs.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Nope, never heard anyone in Ontario use Zee.
I have friends that do.

"Nevertheless, some children in Southern Ontario learn the American name and use it for several years. Lexical surveys in the region repeatedly show a higher proportion of young people with "zee" than of older people. In a Toronto survey in 1979, two-thirds of the 12-year-olds completed their recitation of the alphabet with "zee" but only 8% of the adults did. In 1991, when those 12-year-olds were 25, another survey [the Dialect Topography of the Golden Horseshoe] showed that 39% of 20-25 year-olds said "zee". Obviously, a large number of them had changed their pronunciation in the interval, but it is also obvious that even more of them would eventually change, because only 12.5% of the people over 30 in that same survey said "zee".

http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~chambers/zed.html
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I actually find this lack of consistency extremely annoying.


I mean, if you're in Kingston, Ontario, WTF does 01/09/2018 mean?????


In Quebec, generally speaking it's day/month/year almost all the time, because that makes sense in that it consistent with how French dates are spoken and written. Though even in Quebec on occasion you may have electronic devices that were never changed or can't be changed and spit out the American-style month/day/year.


The Canadian federal government uses year/month/day and uses all four numbers for the year, so that leaves less room for ambiguity.


So today's date in Canadian government circles is 2018/12/17.
It is confusing and frustrating...but if this article is correct, the federal government doesn't stick to one format either.

Not sure if this ever passed.

"Inconsistencies even crop up between different federal government departments.

When you apply for a social insurance number, for example, your date of birth is to be entered as day/month/year.

If you apply for the Canada Pension Plan, it's year/month/day."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/propo...bate-1.3407640
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It is confusing and frustrating...but if this article is correct, the federal government doesn't stick to one format either.

Not sure if this ever passed.

"Inconsistencies even crop up between different federal government departments.

When you apply for a social insurance number, for example, your date of birth is to be entered as day/month/year.

If you apply for the Canada Pension Plan, it's year/month/day."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/propo...bate-1.3407640
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:12 PM
 
14,313 posts, read 11,702,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I have friends that do.

"Nevertheless, some children in Southern Ontario learn the American name and use it for several years. Lexical surveys in the region repeatedly show a higher proportion of young people with "zee" than of older people. In a Toronto survey in 1979, two-thirds of the 12-year-olds completed their recitation of the alphabet with "zee" but only 8% of the adults did. In 1991, when those 12-year-olds were 25, another survey [the Dialect Topography of the Golden Horseshoe] showed that 39% of 20-25 year-olds said "zee". Obviously, a large number of them had changed their pronunciation in the interval, but it is also obvious that even more of them would eventually change, because only 12.5% of the people over 30 in that same survey said "zee"".

http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~chambers/zed.html
I think that's a fascinating study, but the bolded is a fallacy. You can't predict anything about the speech of 20 to 25-year-olds by looking at what people who are currently 30 years old and up are saying.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I have friends that do.

"Nevertheless, some children in Southern Ontario learn the American name and use it for several years. Lexical surveys in the region repeatedly show a higher proportion of young people with "zee" than of older people. In a Toronto survey in 1979, two-thirds of the 12-year-olds completed their recitation of the alphabet with "zee" but only 8% of the adults did. In 1991, when those 12-year-olds were 25, another survey [the Dialect Topography of the Golden Horseshoe] showed that 39% of 20-25 year-olds said "zee". Obviously, a large number of them had changed their pronunciation in the interval, but it is also obvious that even more of them would eventually change, because only 12.5% of the people over 30 in that same survey said "zee".

http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~chambers/zed.html
I know it's a real study but colour me dumbfounded that that so many Ontarians say "zee". I know there are some of course, and I've known many personally. But it certainly never seemed as generalized as this suggests it would be by this point. These are old-ish studies, so if you consider that Americanization in speech hasn't really going anywhere but up in Canada, at this point most people in Ontario should be saying "zee" - if this is to be belived. This is not my observation. And I live right next to those guys.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
How is Quebec English American-influenced?
There are likely two factors at play.


One is that since much of public life is in French, a disproportionate amount of the English many people actually hear in not from societal interactions but from popular culture: which more often than not tends to be American.


Another thing is that some elements of British English (vocabulary, spelling and pronunciation) often appear closer to French. Think of centre, cheque, zed, dialogue, catalogue, organise, kilometre, or even pronouncing route as "root" instead of "rout".


So a lot of people in Quebec I suppose go a far away from French as possible, thinking that is likely what is correct in English. So this leads them to: center, check, zee, dialog, catalog, organize, kilometer, and of course "rout" as opposed to "root" for the word route.
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,555,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know it's a real study but colour me dumbfounded that that so many Ontarians say "zee". I know there are some of course, and I've known many personally. But it certainly never seemed as generalized as this suggests it would be by this point. These are old-ish studies, so if you consider that Americanization in speech hasn't really going anywhere but up in Canada, at this point most people in Ontario should be saying "zee" - if this is to be belived. This is not my observation. And I live right next to those guys.
Perhaps, but my point is that you are more likely to hear Zee in Ontario than BC...maybe????
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,032,223 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Perhaps, but my point is that you are more likely to hear Zee in Ontario than BC...maybe????
Could be. I've never found a big difference between BC and, say, Ontario in terms of the Canadian balance between American and British influences.


Though one thing has always stood out: you guys seem to be the only place in Canada where you put West, East, etc. before the street name, not after. I associate this with the U.S.


Toronto: Queen St. West


Ottawa: Somerset St. East


Calgary: Chuckwagon Crescent Southwest


Montreal: Ste-Catherine St. West (Rue Ste-Catherine Ouest)


Vancouver: West Pender St.


But other than this little nitpick, back when I was an Ontario guy I always found that BC felt more like back home than the Prairies did. Not that there is anything wrong with the Prairies, it's just that when I got to BC (especially SW BC) the American-British juxtaposition became more obvious again. The Prairies were much more "new world" (esp. SK and AB) - somewhat similar to the American West in fact - and almost devoid of the old world trappings that My Canada was peppered with.


In BC all of that stuff kind of reappeared again.
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