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Sadly, I think that the author is preaching to the choir at this point. Those Democrat Americans who regularly read the NYT, will say, "Yes, I agree." Those Republican Americans who do not regularly read the NYT, will hear about it from Fox and Brietbart, and say "fake, fake, fake." Among other things.
I certainly appreciate what the author is trying to do, but I think the divide between Republicans and Democrats--or perhaps I should say, Trumpists and Democrats (since I believe that not all Republicans are for Trump, such as the so-called RINOs)--is now so deep, that nothing one side says will convince the other.
We see it here on C-D. Just look at the P&OC forum, where Canada has been called "socialist" more times than I can count. Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the UK, France, Germany, Australia--according to some P&OC posters, we're all suffering under the yoke of socialism, and have no freedom, either economically or personally. Even though we are all free-market economies, with constitutions that guarantee us every freedom that the US has in its Bill of Rights--and sometimes more. Next thing you know, certain people will be stating that our respective governments will be setting up gulags for those of us who dare to start a business, or do some other free-enterprise thing that runs counter to our so-called "socialism."
Of course, none of the above countries are socialist, as we all know, and we will never see "re-education gulags" in any of those countries.
No, Trumpists will disregard the NYT piece because (a) it comes from "the Mexican-owned blog called the New York Times"; (b) "Canada is socialist and you Canadians are wrong when you say it is not!"; and (c) "We protect you militarily, so you should be thanking us for allowing you to be socialist! Oh, and your Queen won't allow you to insult a Muslim!" At which point, all we can do is .
So much wrong in these views and statements, but what can you do? You either lose your hair over it, or get the popcorn and a good beer, and watch the show.
Last edited by ChevySpoons; 02-08-2019 at 01:23 AM..
Those of us who are in amongst them down here snowbirding have gotten used to either leaving the room or having to act as arbiters during their sometimes heated exchanges. The wiser of them end up shaking their heads after a verbal slug-fest over nothing more than some recent "Trumpism" he's uttered that a certain segment has taken as gospel.
In the twenty or more years we've been coming to the southern parts of the U.S. to spend winters, I've never witnessed this polarization along partisan lines so prominently featured in everything they do now. Go out for a evening meal with a group and now they jostle to sit at opposite ends of the tables or rooms. Golfing foursomes who've golfed together for a decade or more suddenly want nothing to do with each other.
Those of us who are in amongst them down here snowbirding have gotten used to either leaving the room or having to act as arbiters during their sometimes heated exchanges. The wiser of them end up shaking their heads after a verbal slug-fest over nothing more than some recent "Trumpism" he's uttered that a certain segment has taken as gospel.
In the twenty or more years we've been coming to the southern parts of the U.S. to spend winters, I've never witnessed this polarization along partisan lines so prominently featured in everything they do now. Go out for a evening meal with a group and now they jostle to sit at opposite ends of the tables or rooms. Golfing foursomes who've golfed together for a decade or more suddenly want nothing to do with each other.
It's nuts and progressively getting worse.
I honestly doubt that we in Canada will be able to fully escape this evolution. There are already some signs of it taking root here.
As is often the case, though, it will likely be less intense for us.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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I didn't read the article; I get too frustrated by current U.S. politics. (I lived there during such a proud time -- when Obama was elected and served.)
On my way to Loblaws this morning, I saw this sign on the back of a bus. This isn't my picture -- I was driving -- but I want to share this on every thread that compares the U.S. to Canada. I think you'll all enjoy it.
I honestly doubt that we in Canada will be able to fully escape this evolution. There are already some signs of it taking root here.
As is often the case, though, it will likely be less intense for us.
I think Canada will get more of the identity politics, but the very nature of having a multi-party system will diffuse a lot of it. Here in the states, the problem is you choose one or the other, as there's no third choice to keep the two primaries honest. As we're progressing into a cycle where there's little to no middle ground, as the parties move towards their extremes, it really leaves the true majority with only the ability to hold their nose and pick whatever they see as the lesser of two evils.
I honestly doubt that we in Canada will be able to fully escape this evolution. There are already some signs of it taking root here.
As is often the case, though, it will likely be less intense for us.
I have to agree with you and have even mentioned it before on here. The signs are all there for us to consider carefully what kind of political landscape we want but that overbearing influence of 350 million strident voices all going at it over the fence between our respective yards is becoming a siren song.
I'm concerned, with our historical addiction to all things "American", we will not be open to looking at better examples elsewhere.
I've now seen the dangers inherent with rampant or zealous nationalism that serves to preclude or even exclude intelligent introspection and fear Canada is going to slide from 'quiet confidence' to 'raucous whining' about our lost opportunity and thinking the only course of action is to become insular and stagnant.
I have to agree with you and have even mentioned it before on here. The signs are all there for us to consider carefully what kind of political landscape we want but that overbearing influence of 350 million strident voices all going at it over the fence between our respective yards is becoming a siren song.
I'm concerned, with our historical addiction to all things "American", we will not be open to looking at better examples elsewhere.
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A big concern of mine is that the number of "better examples elsewhere" is fading fast. A lot of places that had a pretty good handle on things have taken a turn for the worst.
Sadly, I think that the author is preaching to the choir at this point. Those Democrat Americans who regularly read the NYT, will say, "Yes, I agree." Those Republican Americans who do not regularly read the NYT, will hear about it from Fox and Brietbart, and say "fake, fake, fake." Among other things.
I certainly appreciate what the author is trying to do, but I think the divide between Republicans and Democrats--or perhaps I should say, Trumpists and Democrats (since I believe that not all Republicans are for Trump, such as the so-called RINOs)--is now so deep, that nothing one side says will convince the other.
We see it here on C-D. Just look at the P&OC forum, where Canada has been called "socialist" more times than I can count. Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, the UK, France, Germany, Australia--according to some P&OC posters, we're all suffering under the yoke of socialism, and have no freedom, either economically or personally. Even though we are all free-market economies, with constitutions that guarantee us every freedom that the US has in its Bill of Rights--and sometimes more. Next thing you know, certain people will be stating that our respective governments will be setting up gulags for those of us who dare to start a business, or do some other free-enterprise thing that runs counter to our so-called "socialism." Of course, none of the above countries are socialist, as we all know, and we will never see "re-education gulags of those countries.
No, Trumpists will disregard the NYT piece because (a) it comes from "the Mexican-owned blog called the New York Times"; (b) "Canada is socialist and you Canadians are wrong when you say it is not!"; and (c) "We protect you militarily, so you should be thanking us for allowing you to be socialist! Oh, and your Queen won't allow you to insult a Muslim!" At which point, all we can do is .
So much wrong in these views and statements, but what can you do? You either lose your hair over it, or get the popcorn and a good beer, and watch the show.
Full-blown socialism allows no private enterprise, no private health care, no private postal service. Think of Cuba (until recently), North Korea, China, the former U.S.S.R.
Barack Obama's proposed health insurance program - regardless of what his detractors screamed - was not completely socialist, as it called for retaining mostly private providers (unlike countries such as the U.K.'s NHS). Obama also rescued many thousands of private-sector jobs by bailing-out the American automakers with loans, which they later paid back in full to the U.S. government. Doesn't sound like real socialism to me. He, nor any Americans, have ever threatened to nationalize the Broadcasting system or Airlines, as many more socialist countries do.
Last edited by slowlane3; 02-08-2019 at 07:04 PM..
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