Possibility of Building Bridges to Replace Ice Crossings on Dempster Highway (spring break, how much)
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Would it be feasible to build permnant year round bridges on the Dempster Highway to replace the ice crossings and ferries that currently cross the Peel and Mackenzie Rivers. This was done over the Mackenzie River on the Yellowknife Highway with the construction of the Deh Cho Bridge.
I think a lot would depend upon how heavy and how fast the ice break-up moves in the spring and how bad the frost heave is in the area. It's not worth installing a bridge that is going to be damaged every year.
I think a lot would depend upon how heavy and how fast the ice break-up moves in the spring and how bad the frost heave is in the area. It's not worth installing a bridge that is going to be damaged every year.
Isn't the highway still a dirt road?
I think OWS explanation above goes to the heart of the matter. In the north the ice flows and the permafrost is what rules and is the final deciding factor in any constructions. The Dempster is actually a thick gravel berm which had to be laid down on top of the permafrost so the permafrost wouldn't melt because of vehicles, but the permafrost is thawing now because of climate change. When/if the permafrost thaw progresses and/or finishes melting due to on-going climate change the Dempster will likely collapse in on itself and sink and will have to be completely rebuilt (if possible), maybe even need to be rebuilt in a very different location.
Construction of the Deh Cho bridge was not an easy thing because the permafrost there had to be taken into consideration too and that was long before climate change and extensive thawing permafrost had even been recognized as the very real and major threat that it is now recognized as being. Now with the unrelentless approaching threat of increasingly extensive thaw even the Yellowknife highway and Deh Cho bridge will be at risk of destruction in the future.
Maybe in a few generations down the road when everyone knows exactly what the state of the permafrost situation is and how much land erosion and collapse has happened / will happen because of it, then it might be feasible to build more highways and bridges in different locations. Or it might not be feasible at all. I think we'll all just have to wait and see what happens with the permafrost.
I think OWS explanation above goes to the heart of the matter. In the north the ice flows and the permafrost is what rules and is the final deciding factor in any constructions. The Dempster is actually a thick gravel berm which had to be laid down on top of the permafrost so the permafrost wouldn't melt because of vehicles, but the permafrost is thawing now because of climate change. When/if the permafrost thaw progresses and/or finishes melting due to on-going climate change the Dempster will likely collapse in on itself and sink and will have to be completely rebuilt (if possible), maybe even need to be rebuilt in a very different location.
Construction of the Deh Cho bridge was not an easy thing because the permafrost there had to be taken into consideration too and that was long before climate change and extensive thawing permafrost had even been recognized as the very real and major threat that it is now recognized as being. Now with the unrelentless approaching threat of increasingly extensive thaw even the Yellowknife highway and Deh Cho bridge will be at risk of destruction in the future.
Maybe in a few generations down the road when everyone knows exactly what the state of the permafrost situation is and how much land erosion and collapse has happened / will happen because of it, then it might be feasible to build more highways and bridges in different locations. Or it might not be feasible at all. I think we'll all just have to wait and see what happens with the permafrost.
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The Deh Cho Bridge was opened in 2012 and a year round highway between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk was opened in 2017. Also, a bridge was built to carry the Dalton Highway over the Yukon River in Alaska and the Dalton is a gravel highway.
The Deh Cho Bridge was opened in 2012 and a year round highway between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk was opened in 2017. Also, a bridge was built to carry the Dalton Highway over the Yukon River in Alaska and the Dalton is a gravel highway.
Yes, that is correct. And as the permafrost disappears any of the highways that are built as high berms on top of permafrost and any bridges with footings on top of or drilled into permafrost will need to have essential readjustments made or be rebuilt too. All of them.
But you were asking specifically about the feasibility of bridges being built at river sites on the Dempster. Anything is feasible but just because something is feasible doesn't necessarily mean it is practical or economical when you know its destruction / disappearance may be assured to occur in the very near future.
So will there be bridges built? Maybe someday ...... if they're still needed, if the rivers are still there in their same locations after the permafrost is gone.
And don't ever expect to see anything like your favourite towers or henges constructed up there, that's for sure.
Yes, that is correct. And as the permafrost disappears any of the highways that are built as high berms on top of permafrost and any bridges with footings on top of or drilled into permafrost will need to have essential readjustments made or be rebuilt too. All of them.
But you were asking specifically about the feasibility of bridges being built at river sites on the Dempster. Anything is feasible but just because something is feasible doesn't necessarily mean it is practical or economical when you know its destruction / disappearance may be assured to occur in the very near future.
So will there be bridges built? Maybe someday ...... if they're still needed, if the rivers are still there in their same locations after the permafrost is gone.
And don't ever expect to see anything like your favourite towers or henges constructed up there, that's for sure.
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There is a huge natural gas industry around Tuktoyaktuk and when was melting permafrost recognized as a major problem, since the highway to Tuk was built in 2017.
There is a huge natural gas industry around Tuktoyaktuk and when was melting permafrost recognized as a major problem, since the highway to Tuk was built in 2017.
You need to stop being so argumentative and contrary minded and do some proper research because you are so out of date and unfamiliar with the Arctic you have just demonstrated that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You can get yourself started with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuvik...inter%20season but I suggest you look into actual official documentation and do some proper homework.
To answer your two above statements - No, there is NOT a huge natural gas industry around Tuk, exploration and drilling was banned there a few short years ago and any pre-existing gas industry that still remains is for domestic Tuktoyaktuk community use only.
Melting permafrost was recognized long before construction of the Tuk highway was even started on, which is why years of studies had to be made and submitted before-hand and special techniques and man-made materials and geotextiles had to be manufactured and used to build that highway. It isn't a common built up gravel and rock bermed highway like other Arctic Highways. Did you assume that it is? It was built from underground and underwater upwards to the surface and higher above ground using very special materials and methods for the entire length of it and from the top to bottom of it underground - specifically with permafrost in mind. The same thing goes for the 8 bridges and all the many culverts that are along the length of it.
If you are so pissed off and argumentative because you've just been advised that bridges on the Dempster are unlikely in the immediate future I have to wonder if you are annoyed because you're feeling thwarted and might be somehow involved in some kind of illegal industry, like maybe the drug and alcohol smuggling industry or maybe poaching.
Go do your homework and find out what's actually involved with building bridges and highways in the Arctic before you argue further about it.
I've driven that highway in the summer to Inuvik and honestly the ferries are no big deal. I think if memory serves they don't run at night. You generally don't have to wait that long and it was a unique experience. I quite enjoyed them.
The Deh Cho Bridge was opened in 2012 and a year round highway between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk was opened in 2017. Also, a bridge was built to carry the Dalton Highway over the Yukon River in Alaska and the Dalton is a gravel highway.
It is worth pointing out that the bridge over the Yukon in Alaska carries not only the Dalton Highway but the Trans-Alaska Pipeline as well. And of course, the Dalton Highway itself was built for construction of the pipeline and service of the Prudhoe Bay oilfields.
The point being, there was a very compelling economic reason to build the bridge. Do you see a similarly compelling reason to build bridges on the Dempster Highway?
You may find this link interesting, as some of the pictures detail the engineering of the bridge: Dennis Nottingham Collection
I've driven that highway in the summer to Inuvik and honestly the ferries are no big deal. I think if memory serves they don't run at night. You generally don't have to wait that long and it was a unique experience. I quite enjoyed them.
The problem is that during the fall freeze up and spring breakup periods, there is no way across the Peel and Mackenzie Rivers and that is why a permnant bridge should be built at those locations. This is why the Deh Cho Bridge was built on the Yellowknife Highway.
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