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French French is quite different from Quebecois French. A French friend of mine had trouble communicating in Quebec and eventually gave up and decided to speak English for public services.
Quite a shock to me. The fact that people say Bonjour to indicate goodbye puzzled him and then his grandma said it was OK in the old days.
Well, my thought on the bonjour might be the same in Italian with buongiorno which is usually a good morning type of thing such as bonjour. Even in the shops in Italy one might greet you with that and say that when you leave because in Italian it does mean good day literally. So, I think in this instance it might just be what they weren't used to, but I don't particularly find that too odd.
My boyfriend learned European french, not french canadian. He hasn't practiced his French in years and years until a couple weeks ago and has never spoke to anyone who speaks french canadian french and has absolutely no problems communicating with them. I think it might just be a matter of each individual.
French French is quite different from Quebecois French. A French friend of mine had trouble communicating in Quebec and eventually gave up and decided to speak English for public services.
Quite a shock to me. The fact that people say Bonjour to indicate goodbye puzzled him and then his grandma said it was OK in the old days.
Not to diss kkgg's friends but this sounds a bit ridiculous. Sort of like saying you are going to speak Spanish everywhere in Texas because the English there is so different from UK English... It's especially ridiculous when one considers that 65-70% of francophones in Quebec speak only French and don't speak any English. So what's better? Trying to understand people who are using 97% of the same words as you but with a different accent, or starting from scratch with a language they don't even know? Hmmm.
But what can I say, some people can be so pompous, and this probably has something to do with a form of language superiority BS: perceived superiority of Parisian French OR perceived superiority of English as the globally dominant language, OR perhaps a bit of both.
For the record, every single day I personally witness dozens of people from France and other francophone countries going about their daily business in French with native-born francophone Quebecers. No one seems to have a problem understanding one another.
Based on what I've read in books and online, French in Quebec isn't that different from European French. And, I think myItalianLovesSnow has a good point that it's probably a matter of the individuals involved.
Anyway, I visited Quebec City earlier this year, and the people there were incredibly nice and friendly. I was only in the tourist areas. Hopefully they're just as friendly elsewhere in the city.
Mutual intelligibility of Quebec French with Metropolitan French is a matter of heated debates among linguists. If a comparison can be made, the differences between both dialects are probably larger than those between American and British English, and than those between Brazilian Portuguese and that of Portugal, and than those between Mexican Spanish and European Spanish, but less than those differences between standard German and Swiss German.
(...)
Francophone Canadians abroad have to modify their accent somewhat in order to be easily understood, but very few Francophone Canadians are unable to communicate readily with European Francophones. European pronunciation is not really difficult for Canadians to understand; only differences in vocabulary present any problems. Nevertheless, Quebec French accent is mostly closer to that of Poitou or of Normandy and also some parts of Wallonia.
Not to diss kkgg's friends but this sounds a bit ridiculous. Sort of like saying you are going to speak Spanish everywhere in Texas because the English there is so different from UK English... It's especially ridiculous when one considers that 65-70% of francophones in Quebec speak only French and don't speak any English. So what's better? Trying to understand people who are using 97% of the same words as you but with a different accent, or starting from scratch with a language they don't even know? Hmmm.
But what can I say, some people can be so pompous, and this probably has something to do with a form of language superiority BS: perceived superiority of Parisian French OR perceived superiority of English as the globally dominant language, OR perhaps a bit of both.
For the record, every single day I personally witness dozens of people from France and other francophone countries going about their daily business in French with native-born francophone Quebecers. No one seems to have a problem understanding one another.
I agree, I didn't want to dis anyone but that is exactly what I thought, what we thought. Because I have been in a situation where I was literally one of a few people who speak English at all I know what to expect. While right now I would be totally lost, I will be well prepared before we moved.
Like I said it is probably a matter of each individual, I can tell you that even when I start studying French again I will not have as good as an understanding as GF does, he is a linguist, it is his passion to learn new things especially languages but I will hopefully be prepared. I wouldn't expect special treatment (like some think here in the US) and actually we look forward to this.
If you think about it, I was born in Tulsa, Ok. and have lived here and Colorado the biggest parts of my life. When I lived in California, (Sierra Nevadas) Iowa/Omaha, Colorado and Texas people would just joke about my accent a little but they understood me. I don't have a heavy accent even if I am told I eat my words...lol. If I went to a big city where there are a lot of urban speakers, I would have a hard time understanding them, just as people from the north find southerners hard to understand...and REDNECK...well, unless you are redneck nobody understands what you say...lol. So, in my opinion it is a matter of having studied French (whichever form) and living in a place and getting used to what the normal regional characteristics is of the overall speech of everyone.
Mutual intelligibility of Quebec French with Metropolitan French is a matter of heated debates among linguists. If a comparison can be made, the differences between both dialects are probably larger than those between American and British English, and than those between Brazilian Portuguese and that of Portugal, and than those between Mexican Spanish and European Spanish, but less than those differences between standard German and Swiss German.
(...)
Francophone Canadians abroad have to modify their accent somewhat in order to be easily understood, but very few Francophone Canadians are unable to communicate readily with European Francophones. European pronunciation is not really difficult for Canadians to understand; only differences in vocabulary present any problems. Nevertheless, Quebec French accent is mostly closer to that of Poitou or of Normandy and also some parts of Wallonia.
Like I said it is a matter of the individual, if you have a vast knowledge of a language or languages or you are a linguist obviously it will be easier for you. I've been in a situation where I was in my boyfriend's village and maybe 10 know English at all. 4 were English, from London, Gf and his two best friends, one is fluent and the other managed and then a couple others who know a bit and can communicate a bit but most of the time I had to rely on my poor italian when GF was not around. We managed and I wanted to say that it is also a matter of how kind and patient people are. I really just think that people make more a big deal than it needs to be, there are always going to be individuals speaking any language that we have a hard time understanding. I previously mentioned GF and my puerto rican friends speak and understand and they are able to effectively communicate he has also spoke and communicated with a few from Mexico which is spoke differently than they do in Puerto Rico and again they communicated easily. He speaks to French people and French Canadian speakers and apart from a few differences he communicates effectively. I know an architect in California who is a native Italian speaker from Sicily who speaks to his workers and they speak 'mexican' or central american spanish and he speaks to them in Italian and they speak to him in spanish and THEY understand one another! So, while we know that some people will find more difficulty than others it is ridiculous, in my opinion, to say that it is SO different that people don't understand one another.
Idioms, expressions, slang are in all languages. I can't say that a New Yorker will understand a Redneck, in fact I know most wouldn't at all, but i am used to the butchered English language here in the south, I do know that sometimes I find people from the north harder to understand. things even change from generation to generation.
In the end, it is a matter of how much someone opens themselves up to the experience and understanding and respect of the culture that they are immigrating into, no?
Mutual intelligibility of Quebec French with Metropolitan French is a matter of heated debates among linguists. If a comparison can be made, the differences between both dialects are probably larger than those between American and British English, and than those between Brazilian Portuguese and that of Portugal, and than those between Mexican Spanish and European Spanish, but less than those differences between standard German and Swiss German.
(...)
Francophone Canadians abroad have to modify their accent somewhat in order to be easily understood, but very few Francophone Canadians are unable to communicate readily with European Francophones. European pronunciation is not really difficult for Canadians to understand; only differences in vocabulary present any problems. Nevertheless, Quebec French accent is mostly closer to that of Poitou or of Normandy and also some parts of Wallonia.
It sounds insignificant but one cannot discount the importance of popular culture exchanges in the mutual intelligibility of different variations within a same language. This is especially true in the case of the US variety of English, of which even some of the most obscure and uniquely American terms are familiar to people in Glasgow, Scotland and Invercargill, New Zealand. But things aren’t so seamless going in the other direction, and Americans who are not well-travelled are generally unfamiliar with many English words that are commonly used by Brits, Aussies, Kiwis and even second-language English speakers who learned the UK variety in continental Europe, India, etc. And I am not just talking about typical idioms like the Aussie "fair dinkum" here, I am talking about really basic stuff like knowing that some people call the last letter of the alphabet "zed" rather than "zee", "petrol" for "gas", etc.
Quebec popular culture has obviously not had the saturation coverage in France that the U.S. entertainment industry has had in the UK and elsewhere. However, it is interesting to note that its place in France and in the francophonie has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few decades, a period that has also seen a greater intelligibility between Quebec French and European French. (Improvements to the French taught in Quebec schools have also brought it closer to the international standard French, as has the arrival of hundreds of thousands of immigrants to Quebec from francophone countries around the world.)
And this brings to my next point: since colonization took place, there has been quite a bit of contact (cultural, intellectual, migratory, even institutional in some cases) over the centuries between UK English and US English, Latin American Spanish and Castilian Spanish, Portgual Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese. All of which allowed for at least some common evolution of the languages.
This is significantly different from Quebec, where there was very little contact with France from the time of British conquest around 1760 until the 1950s. So there was very much a "silo" situation with North American French (because the isolation wasn’t limited to Quebec, but also to francophones elsewhere in Canada and even Franco-Americans) vis-à -vis the French in Europe and also the French pockets it spawned all over the world through colonization (Africa, Middle East, Indochina, Caribbean, etc.)
I was only quoting his words, and I was equally surprised when he told me about it. Anway, I guess when he metioned Quebec, he meant Montreal, not Quebec city, which is why it was easy to just speak English.
I complete agree with you on the "languagbe superiority BS" argument. My point has always been: if you want to move to a French speaking city, quit asking questions such as "can I get around by only speaking English?". Pick up French as it is such a beautiful language and worth learning no matter how old you are. No one in the world is obligated to learn English so that Anglophones don't have to learn any foreign languages.
On the other hand, I did notice some significant difference in the quebec french pronunciation. For example, they pronouce "d" as "dz" for some reason (it is true?). Maybe it is not a big deal for french natives, but it caused some confusion for me at that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Not to diss kkgg's friends but this sounds a bit ridiculous. Sort of like saying you are going to speak Spanish everywhere in Texas because the English there is so different from UK English... It's especially ridiculous when one considers that 65-70% of francophones in Quebec speak only French and don't speak any English. So what's better? Trying to understand people who are using 97% of the same words as you but with a different accent, or starting from scratch with a language they don't even know? Hmmm.
But what can I say, some people can be so pompous, and this probably has something to do with a form of language superiority BS: perceived superiority of Parisian French OR perceived superiority of English as the globally dominant language, OR perhaps a bit of both.
For the record, every single day I personally witness dozens of people from France and other francophone countries going about their daily business in French with native-born francophone Quebecers. No one seems to have a problem understanding one another.
I was only quoting his words, and I was equally surprised when he told me about it. Anway, I guess when he metioned Quebec, he meant Montreal, not Quebec city, which is why it was easy to just speak English.
I complete agree with you on the "languagbe superiority BS" argument. My point has always been: if you want to move to a French speaking city, quit asking questions such as "can I get around by only speaking English?". Pick up French as it is such a beautiful language and worth learning no matter how old you are. No one in the world is obligated to learn English so that Anglophones don't have to learn any foreign languages.
On the other hand, I did notice some significant difference in the quebec french pronunciation. For example, they pronouce "d" as "dz" for some reason (it is true?). Maybe it is not a big deal for french natives, but it caused some confusion for me at that time.
From your posts on here kkgg, I know you're not a Quebec-basher.
And BTW, you are totally right about the "dz" (Qc) vs. "d" (Fr) pronunciation.
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