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How could this be rat poison? I will research. We will reject the medication if prescribed.
Beware such information! My mother lived to age 97 with all her wits and she had to be given a blood thinner called Coumadin, prescribed by her excellent specialist. If the source of coumadin is a bit of rat poison, medicine is made from many ingredients. Used alone, some may be toxic. Mixed together they save lives for the good of mankind.
My father was on Coumadin for about 15 years. He had to switch to baby aspirin as a last resort because all other prescribed blood thinners would've killed him.
Warfarin (also known under the brand names Coumadin, Jantoven, Marevan, Lawarin, Waran, and Warfant) is an anticoagulant normally used in the prevention of thrombosis and thromboembolism, the formation of blood clots in the blood vessels and their migration elsewhere in the body respectively. It was initially introduced in 1948 as a pesticide against rats and mice and is still used for this purpose, although more potent poisons such as brodifacoum have since been developed. In the early 1950s, warfarin was found to be effective and relatively safe for preventing thrombosis and thromboembolism in many disorders. It was approved for use as a medication in 1954 and has remained popular ever since; warfarin is the most widely prescribed oral anticoagulant drug in North America.
How could this be rat poison? I will research. We will reject the medication if prescribed.
Penicillin is derived from fungi (mold). Coumadin has been around and used by millions safely since the 1950's.
Any drug is not always the best for a given person. My wife is allergic to Penicillin. She is also allergic to Lobster. Does that mean all should not use Penicillin nor eat Lobster or just her?
It seems you are helping your Mom with her medical issue so do not let some of the anti-medical, whack jobs on here worry you.
Warfarin is derived from rat poison but it has been used in many, many patients over the years. The biggest downside in my view is that the "pro-time" has to be monitored on a regular basis to see if the amount should be increased or decreased. The point is that when in afib (as I said, a very common problem in the elderly) it is altogether possible for a blood clot to form in the left atrium and to travel to the brain and result in a stroke. I believe the chances are about 7 times greater than if one is not on a blood thinner. I've not personally taken it but have been taking Pradaxa (non-generic) for well over a year or more. It can get fairly expensive unless the insurance picks up most of the tab. Fortunately, mine does.
I've never been able to get a consensus of doctors how long one would need to be in afib before the clot formation becomes a problem. I've heard 48 hours but many say any significant time. Your guess is as good as mine. I was in afib for about 45 days back about three years ago and it just wore me out. I had an appointment to have cardio conversion at the hospital but that morning converted to normal "sinus rhythm." (The "ker-plunk, ker-plunk") beat. The doctor looked at the ecg and said "you're fine, now you can go home" or words to that effect.
Not to get too far into the weeds here what is going on is that the "p" wave will be missing from the ecg. It is easily picked up by the machine and even my home monitor can pick it up when I do my regular blood pressure readings. And I can always tell and I don't like it one little bit. Other than that I am seemingly as "healthy as a horse."
There has been another med that has come on the market recently. This site from the Mayo Clinic discusses the whole situation including the meds.
The "good news" is that one is unlikely to die from this condition. But it can drive you "crazy" and it is a major problem with many hospitalizations as our population ages. And even young people can get it when they drink too much called "holiday heart."
While people will not likely die from afib if they get left ventricular fibrillation they can die. That requires immediate medical attention. The right ventricle is concerned with pulmonary function and is not normally seen as important since it serves one organ; the lungs. The left ventricle is like the engine in your car. If it quits the body will sputter to a halt and death quickly ensues.
Having said all this, there has been a lot of progress in recent years. In a worse case scenario such as virtual incapacity, a heart transplant can actually restore a person's normal life for the most part although anti-rejection drugs will be required. Eventually, down the road, it is quite probable that medical labs will be able to grow complete organs and simply remove and replace them much as we do with automotive components such as the engine or transmission.
It is little more than a sensational tactic to do something like bring up the fact that warfarin (Coumadin) is a rat poison.
The blood thinning effect that assists in A Fib is the reason it's used to kill rodents, not by poisoning them in the usual sense, but by causing them to suffer a fatal hemorrhage due to the amount consumed relative to their body size.
Many, many things would be fatal to humans if given in excess amounts....including water.
Also, depending on the individual case, warfarin is not always the medication prescribed.
It's the dosage weight-to-substance ratio that determines toxicity. Chlorine is poison, and yet we put it in our water every day. You wouldn't drink bleach, but in small amounts it is completely safe and used as an antibacterial agent - yes, even in our water, where it provides antibacterial coverage without being toxic. Chlorine was used as a gas in WW1. Coumadin counteracts vitamin K in the hope that the blood will not clot and therefore prevent a stroke. Period. No one is being poisoned except with overdose - hey, wait a minute - maybe that's why they check your blood every month or so???
As missourimule noted, the down side to Coumadin is that your blood must constantly be monitored. There are newer thinners like Xarelto and Pradaxa that don't require as much attention, and although expensive are just as effective.
rmissourimule has given some excellent information, but only the OP knows the exact situation. I've determined I will be in charge of my own health care and do the due diligence required to be be relatively well-informed before making decisions. That's what the OP is doing.....finding answers and opinions. But as I review the OP's first note, there's not even mention of warfarin/Coumadin in there - that came from a subsequent post. Perhaps the usage of Coumadin could be debated in the health forum?
My father was on Coumadin for about 15 years. He had to switch to baby aspirin as a last resort because all other prescribed blood thinners would've killed him.
Wow! Fifteen years, and the "rat poison" didn't kill him?
I'm willing to bet that after fifteen years, your Father's pro-times couldn't be stabilized by increasing/decreasing dosages and that's why he was changed to "baby aspirin". In actuality, "baby aspirin" is generally the first resort. Millions of people, myself included, take 81mg. aspirins every day to keep the blood flowing normally.
I hope the OP realizes that there is some information that may sound alarming when you've had no practical experience in the matter, but further investigation can explain. It's a bit early to decide that anything will be "rejected", considering you don't know exactly what the cardiologist is going to advise as to your Mother's condition.
Given my choice between warfarin and nothing else I would opt to use it. I think the idea of having a stroke is not something I would want to entertain.
The simple fact is that this problem is so common to the elderly population that it can't be swept under the rug and ignored. I've seen estimates that 10% of the population over age 60 have it. Some of the well known individuals who have afib would be Bill Bradly, Jerry West and Larry Bird, former great basketball players.
Former president George Bush also had it briefly as a result of a thyroid problem that was treated. So far as I know he does not now have it.
If someone has the means, it might be worthwhile to have ablation or the full "Maze" surgery or the "mini-maze" procedure done to correct the problem. Even then there is no guarantee it will permanently solve the problem. I maintain a strict regimen of various meds and otherwise live a very ordinary life. So it is not some death sentence and it can be managed even if "rat poison" is one of the prescribed meds.
Having rattled on about this subject, we still don't have a specific diagnosis so far as I know. But I would be strongly inclined to believe that was the problem. It just goes with the territory (advancing age.) I prefer that to the alternative or an avoidable stroke.
Hi jbless, just saw your post. I'm a longtime Rockwall resident . You sound like a great son or daughter.
Just one suggestion, if you haven't yet seen the cardiologist: don't be in a hurry to make a decision, do your research. Just posting here indicates you understand the importance of doing so. I highly recommend the book Knocking on Heaven's Door; if you don't have time to order and read it, the author wrote a great summary piece that was published in the New York Times: A pacemaker ruins a family's life.
A major difference between your mom and the author's situation is that your mom is still lucid and independent and relatively young. So don't necessarily be scared away from the pacemaker. Still, there's a great takeaway from the author's experience: don't be in a rush, take your time, ask lots of questions, be sure you understand the risks, don't just assume that the cardiologist is the ultimate expert. Information is power. You and your mom together know way more about her situation than any doctor ever could.
Questions I would ask for sure: what is the best outcome we might expect from this procedure? What is the worst outcome, i.e. the risks, can you give me specifics, what is the stroke risk for persons her age undergoing this procedure? If we opt not to do it, what is the best outcome? What is the worst? Are there any alternatives to the surgery? What did people with arrhythmias like hers do before this procedure became available?
Best of luck to you both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbless
Hello. After reading this forum, I learned two things: (1) Be thankful that I am caring for an overall healthy mom (2) The more I take care of my mom's health and make sure she eats and exercises the better of both of us will be in life.
This Wednesday, I brought my mom to my doctor and let her leave the strictly "traditional" doctors who are not holistic. My doctor in Rockwall, Texas is the best! He explained to my mom how to address all her aliments such as osteoporosis, arthritis and pancreatic cysts with BOTH natural and traditional medical solutions.
During the evaluation, the doctor discovered my mom who is 73 has heart arrhythmia.
Does any one know what this is and what is best to ask the Cardiologist at the appointment? Where on the forum or other forums is best to put the heart question?
(Note: I just started bringing my mom to my doctor because her insurance is not accepted at his office. This week I made a decision to pay the extra money and the doctor gave my mom first class service.)
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by biscuitmom; 09-17-2013 at 11:54 PM..
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. You sound like a great son or daughter. 
