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My above post reads like I was taking him to get euthanized today--can I clarify. This vet requires this small physical before she will do it, so I was getting that out of the way, so I can take him in any time I need now. That milestone was enough to have me upset. For 67 dollars she actually did quite a lot--she got all my records and studied them and prodded him thoroughly.
She says she doesn't feel comfortable putting a healthy animal down, so she requires the exam.
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but we ran into a very similar situation yesterday---se my thread Prayers for Marshmallow.
I didn't mention the cost issue in my thread, but it was a determining factor. Marshmallow was old, about 12, we weren't really sure, he was adopted as an adult. he became ill all of a sudden, and we took him to an ER clinic.
They said Plan A: pull out all the stops, do all tests they could think of, keep him hopsitalized for days, etc, would come to about $2500-$3000. We simply couldn't afford that. Plan B was to keep him overnight, stabalize him, then transfer him to the care of our local vet today. That would be about $600-$800. Ok, we opted for Plan B.
Then, they called us at midnight, saying they really couldn't go with plan B, he was declining fast. They were really pushing for more money!
We went back to the hospital, thinking we would take him home and let him die in peace, or follow up with our local vet if he survived the night. However, he was so far gone, he was in a diabetic coma when we got there. We opted to have him PTS there, rather than either subject him to the frightening car ride home, or more hospital, which he hated.
It seems pet care is only for the wealthy now. We figured if they wanted ~$3000, it would come to more like $5000--$6000+ by the time they got through, and we'd still end up with a sick animal. Cost was a big determining factor, but ultimately we decided to seize the "window" for him to go peacefully> He already had a IV, the whole family went to hold him and say goodbye, then, they administered ther injection.
Do be aware, euthanasia is not always easy. Usually a sedative is given first, but it depends on the vet. then, a narcotic is administered by IV IF they can find a vein. Very sick, dehydrated animals often don't have accessible veins. then, well....the options become more grim, like they pierce the heart or kidneys with a lethal drug. I read about someone who wanted their cat PTS over a weekend, they gave them a "death pill" to choke down the poor kitty. This is the grim truth---euthanasia isn't always a "mercy".
We released poor Marshmallow while the process was still kind for him.
OP---I'm sorry you're going through all this.
I wonder why vet bills have soared so much? Just the economy, cost of health care perhaps pet health insurance is driving costs up? That's what drove up human medicine. Back in the day before 3rd party payers, health care was something a person could be expected to afford. However, with insurance setting the pace, now (human) health care is not something any individual would be expected to cover on his own. I wonder if pet insurance is doing a similar thing to pet health care?
Cats can develop food adversion if you try force feeding. Potassium supplement was a good call. I forget there's the kidney issue going on too. We treated Daisy with potassium supplements, liquid tagamet for the tummy, subq's 3x a week. Did that for 2 years. She was also on pancreazyme (sp?) which I had to sprinkle on her wet food 15 minutes before I fed her.. and Norvasc. She was an excellent patient. Goodness.. then there was an adenocarcinoma on her chin I had removed in the middle of all this.
Ultimately, a sudden heart attack took her to Rainbow Bridge.
The cat is so improved this morning I wonder if he has cancer at all. He's eating canned food on his own with some enthusiasm. He's not breathing hard at all. (i did set up the vaporizer and i did give him the potassium) He's also being particularly friendly and affectionate and walking normally.
I have to work today and I am afraid he will have a seizure and die while I am gone.
I gave him more Batril because without it he was dying. I asked at my regular vet (The Tuesday night vet was on duty, the dismissive one) he said: The cat has cancer so you can discontinue the Batril or not--the cancer is causing the seizures. Actually, I was inclined to believe him until this morning.
The Euthanasia vet said switch, but she couldn't come up with an alternative. She also said seizures don't usually kill a cat--but can they if the cat is alone?
I could leave him at the vet today, because he is so much better and I don't think the stress would kill him at this point--but could stress itself cause a seizure?
I called a cat sitter to come sit, but it is 6:30 saturday morning--who will be awake?
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but we ran into a very similar situation yesterday---se my thread Prayers for Marshmallow.
I didn't mention the cost issue in my thread, but it was a determining factor. Marshmallow was old, about 12, we weren't really sure, he was adopted as an adult. he became ill all of a sudden, and we took him to an ER clinic.
They said Plan A: pull out all the stops, do all tests they could think of, keep him hopsitalized for days, etc, would come to about $2500-$3000. We simply couldn't afford that. Plan B was to keep him overnight, stabalize him, then transfer him to the care of our local vet today. That would be about $600-$800. Ok, we opted for Plan B.
Then, they called us at midnight, saying they really couldn't go with plan B, he was declining fast. They were really pushing for more money!
We went back to the hospital, thinking we would take him home and let him die in peace, or follow up with our local vet if he survived the night. However, he was so far gone, he was in a diabetic coma when we got there. We opted to have him PTS there, rather than either subject him to the frightening car ride home, or more hospital, which he hated.
It seems pet care is only for the wealthy now. We figured if they wanted ~$3000, it would come to more like $5000--$6000+ by the time they got through, and we'd still end up with a sick animal. Cost was a big determining factor, but ultimately we decided to seize the "window" for him to go peacefully> He already had a IV, the whole family went to hold him and say goodbye, then, they administered ther injection.
Do be aware, euthanasia is not always easy. Usually a sedative is given first, but it depends on the vet. then, a narcotic is administered by IV IF they can find a vein. Very sick, dehydrated animals often don't have accessible veins. then, well....the options become more grim, like they pierce the heart or kidneys with a lethal drug. I read about someone who wanted their cat PTS over a weekend, they gave them a "death pill" to choke down the poor kitty. This is the grim truth---euthanasia isn't always a "mercy".
We released poor Marshmallow while the process was still kind for him.
OP---I'm sorry you're going through all this.
I wonder why vet bills have soared so much? Just the economy, cost of health care perhaps pet health insurance is driving costs up? That's what drove up human medicine. Back in the day before 3rd party payers, health care was something a person could be expected to afford. However, with insurance setting the pace, now (human) health care is not something any individual would be expected to cover on his own. I wonder if pet insurance is doing a similar thing to pet health care?
Whatever....OP...take care, HTH!
We have in our town some country vets who don't offer much service. They do the old fashioned things that are useful for healthy pets and they charge very little. That is like the old days when I was growing up and when the animal got old and got its first major illness, you put it down. But vets bills were like 20 dollars and no one thought of paying more. The vets today use the same type of high tech equipment needed for humans. (The owner of the hospital was explaining this all to me)
In the old days, you just took a chance the animal would die during a crude surgery--now they have an high tech room with an anethesiologist. They advertise that the chances of the animal dying during surgery are very small. It's what people want now. And there is no subsidy from the government like with humans.
To update you, I talked to the better, nicer vet this morning and unfortunately she also feels that cancer caused the seizure (even though his symptoms have temporarily ended.)
She says the dose of batril is far too low to cause seizures, and if, on the off chance it was, that , she agrees that cats don't die of the mild seizure caused by antibiotic.
She says there is no point in hospitalizing him--the cancer caused seizure could come at any time, and ending it is only a temporary fix.
So, off to work for me, cats is snoozing and stretching and purring, so at least he is having a good day.
Glad he's having a good day today. I hope very much his improvement lasts for a while! I know this is such a strain on you, but treasure these last times with him. He's lucky to have such a caring mama.
I don't know either. But I thought she would suggest it.
I even dreaded to take him in sometime, for fear they will suggest it. But I guess you you are right--when that blank look is there, and the suffering, you can't bear it and want it done. I am not quite there yet, as long as there is not another seizure, or some new thing.
There is no law that stops vets from suggesting euthanizing. It is, however, very much illegal to actually perform the procedure without client agreement.
That said, vets are just people and don't have the answers to life or death anymore than their clients do. When to euthanize is not a clinical decision. A vet can pull blood and tell you by the numbers if your cat is in kidney failure, has diabetes, has a thyroid issue, etc. But those numbers don't tell us anything about how the animal is actually feeling. Suffering is such an ambiguous thing, especially in the case of a pet where they can't talk and tell us where their pain is on a scale of 1-10, if they're nauseous, if it's time...
Some vets are more upfront, but many just aren't comfortable being asked to help make this decision because it is such a private and personal thing. This is a question that doesn't have a 'right' answer. As someone else suggested, sometimes it is better to phrase it as 'if this cat belonged to you, what would you do?" Thing is, though, the cat isn't theirs. You know him better than anyone else. You know how he looks when he's happy, when he's frustrated, when he's sad. They can see his numbers, but they can't really see him the way you can.
I know phrases like 'you'll know' seem vastly unhelpful in these circumstances, but in a way it is true. If you're logical-minded like me, it can help to make a list of things he enjoys. Sitting in a window? Being petted? Eating his favorite food? Then pay attention each day to how well he can do those things. When the bad days when he can't do his favorite things outnumber the good, it's time.
Many cats will start to withdraw when the time is close. Often they'll hid or shrink away from being petted, so that's a sign to watch for.
Just as this is a question with no 'right' answer, there's no wrong answer either. You're already doing the right thing by him...you're loving him, watching him, and being there with him in this final journey. However it ends, that you were with him through it despite your own pain is the biggest gift we can give our pets.
Thanks to everyone who helped me. The cat seems to be past the immediate crises. Which of course, is wonderful, unless it reoccurs next week, in which case things are just being dragged out. My plan is to switch to this new vet at the end of the street, and do low cost things that she suggests. If he takes another tumble and she doesn't have the resources to help him I'll have to let him go. Her clinic seems like a big house, and he feels relaxed there, and since we can walk, it's not stressful for him.
I don't know if he has cancer, or if he got a very bad head cold that was allowed to get worse because he didn't get the proper care due the the attitude of the first vet I took him too, who clearly didn't do the necessary things or give a crap. If it's cancer, of course, that doesn't matter, except for the extra money it cost me:-(
(I might eventually go to the owner of the clinic and ask for the money back from the first two visits, minus the money for the blood work, which is legitimate and I agreed to)
Anyway, a bunch of very kind, good people are here. Animal lovers, I guess I should have expected. Thank you, and thank you for bearing with me through my ordeal.
Edit: I want to edit to state my appreciation one more time. I was up nights last week, and I don't know how I might have coped without the kindness and generosity of people on this forum. This world contains very nice things, we never stop to note it. My kitty thanks you for the kind thoughts.
There is no law that stops vets from suggesting euthanizing. It is, however, very much illegal to actually perform the procedure without client agreement.
That said, vets are just people and don't have the answers to life or death anymore than their clients do. When to euthanize is not a clinical decision. A vet can pull blood and tell you by the numbers if your cat is in kidney failure, has diabetes, has a thyroid issue, etc. But those numbers don't tell us anything about how the animal is actually feeling. Suffering is such an ambiguous thing, especially in the case of a pet where they can't talk and tell us where their pain is on a scale of 1-10, if they're nauseous, if it's time...
Some vets are more upfront, but many just aren't comfortable being asked to help make this decision because it is such a private and personal thing. This is a question that doesn't have a 'right' answer. As someone else suggested, sometimes it is better to phrase it as 'if this cat belonged to you, what would you do?" Thing is, though, the cat isn't theirs. You know him better than anyone else. You know how he looks when he's happy, when he's frustrated, when he's sad. They can see his numbers, but they can't really see him the way you can.
I know phrases like 'you'll know' seem vastly unhelpful in these circumstances, but in a way it is true. If you're logical-minded like me, it can help to make a list of things he enjoys. Sitting in a window? Being petted? Eating his favorite food? Then pay attention each day to how well he can do those things. When the bad days when he can't do his favorite things outnumber the good, it's time.
Many cats will start to withdraw when the time is close. Often they'll hid or shrink away from being petted, so that's a sign to watch for.
Just as this is a question with no 'right' answer, there's no wrong answer either. You're already doing the right thing by him...you're loving him, watching him, and being there with him in this final journey. However it ends, that you were with him through it despite your own pain is the biggest gift we can give our pets.
This is an excellent post, ParallelJJCat. Thank you.
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