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Three Wolves In Snow ... you've well-described your situation. What comes through clear as a bell is your deep compassion for cats and devotion to any who cross your path.
Okay. How about some compromises. All of this from my perspective. Unsupervised nighttime explorations is what bothers me the most. I would do two things.
First, only feed them indoors (which sounds like what you're doing), and at suppertime that's it - no more outdoors until after breakfast. Delay suppertime until the sun goes down if that works best to give them enough outdoor time. The explorers may/will certainly have hissy fits and mama cat may go into hiding again during the night, but it's for their benefit (keeping them safe) and yours (you'd be able to sleep and not have to check on their welfare). They will eventually learn the routine. If you play with them in the evenings and leave them fun things to do in your home while you're asleep, then staying indoors after dark won't feel so crappy to them.
Second, I would definitely work on some behavior modification so that whenever you approach them outside you will be able to pick them up. At present, if there was any kind of emergency, you wouldn't be able to do it. Use positive reinforcement techniques. Start with approaching them and giving them treats, but don't pick them up. They'll learn that your approach does not always mean something negative. Once you can do that, start picking them up, give a cuddle and put them back down. They'll then learn that being picked up doesn't mean it's-time-to-go-in-but-I-don't-wanna.
What all of this does is to put you back in control, the alpha of the pack so to speak, which is what you must be.
You just reminded me of the time when I was about 15 or 16, and caught a dog killing a cat. He then paraded around the neighborhood with it, while I chased him down and screamed at him. Smart thing to do? Probably not, but I was so fricken livid. He finally dropped the cat, and all I remember seeing was the ribs sticking out from the giant hole where he had torn that cat open.
Thanks for the reminder.
A dog's instincts take over when they are roaming the streets, and they go into hunt and/or procreate mode. It only takes one bite to take out a cat, and they (like cats) go for the throat first.
Most people don't realize how quick and brutal a dog attack on a cat can be.
My mom made a cat yard out our country house. It was much cheaper than the cat fencing.
She got some plastic fencing(the kind that looks like netting) and 5ft T-posts. She attached the fencing the T posts but it over hangs by a good 2 feet so they can't jump up and over(since they will hit the extra fence) and its not stable enough to climb.(its only attached well enough to hold up) and cats won't climb things they don't feel stable.
We have 7 cats and live on 130 acres, been several months and it keeps them in and the other things out.
Three Wolves In Snow ... you've well-described your situation. What comes through clear as a bell is your deep compassion for cats and devotion to any who cross your path.
Okay. How about some compromises. All of this from my perspective. Unsupervised nighttime explorations is what bothers me the most. I would do two things.
First, only feed them indoors (which sounds like what you're doing), and at suppertime that's it - no more outdoors until after breakfast. Delay suppertime until the sun goes down if that works best to give them enough outdoor time. The explorers may/will certainly have hissy fits and mama cat may go into hiding again during the night, but it's for their benefit (keeping them safe) and yours (you'd be able to sleep and not have to check on their welfare). They will eventually learn the routine. If you play with them in the evenings and leave them fun things to do in your home while you're asleep, then staying indoors after dark won't feel so crappy to them.
Second, I would definitely work on some behavior modification so that whenever you approach them outside you will be able to pick them up. At present, if there was any kind of emergency, you wouldn't be able to do it. Use positive reinforcement techniques. Start with approaching them and giving them treats, but don't pick them up. They'll learn that your approach does not always mean something negative. Once you can do that, start picking them up, give a cuddle and put them back down. They'll then learn that being picked up doesn't mean it's-time-to-go-in-but-I-don't-wanna.
What all of this does is to put you back in control, the alpha of the pack so to speak, which is what you must be.
Sorry, there was a misunderstanding. They let me pick them up, pet them, play with them now because I'm not going out there and hauling them back in immediately, like I was in the beginning. It was when I did that they would run. Now because I'm saying, "I don't know how to keep you inside right now" (because the screen was worthless, all of my blocking off attempts were total failures, so I have to save up for another door), they are relaxed when I go out there and pet, play, call them to me, etc.
I do like your compromise though, and I think that's something I could live with. It would still allow them to be outside during the day, (quality of life is what I'm focused on here, and yes, there is a difference, and an enormous difference in one of the cats...so enormous it pains me to think of taking that away from her and having her hide the rest of her life like she's been, from the others), but have them be in at night. It's starting to get cooler now, a bit, so I may be able to just let them out during the day, get them inside at night at feeding time, and just close the main door...problem solved. But for next spring/summer, I'm definitely going to need a screen in place, a much better, more solid screen door so that I can let cool air in, but they can still be out in the day time. They two boys don't leave the yard in the day time, (and only once in awhile at night), so I'm comfortable with that.
I can totally live with that. In fact, I really like that.
Edit: I was looking up "catio" ideas, and let me tell you, I wish that I had my own place and the money to do this:
Edit: I was looking up "catio" ideas, and let me tell you, I wish that I had my own place and the money to do this:
Yes but just because you can't do that doesn't mean you can't do something. It would cost you very little in terms of money or effort to get some plastic deer netting and some brackets and install an overhang around the fence to discourage jumpers.
Imagine the peace of mind! (I still wouldn't let them out at night, even with cat proofing the fence though so I am glad you are rethinking that.)
Sorry, there was a misunderstanding. They let me pick them up, pet them, play with them now because I'm not going out there and hauling them back in immediately, like I was in the beginning. It was when I did that they would run. Now because I'm saying, "I don't know how to keep you inside right now" (because the screen was worthless, all of my blocking off attempts were total failures, so I have to save up for another door), they are relaxed when I go out there and pet, play, call them to me, etc.
Sorry I missed that!!! My apologies! Ok, I feel better :-)
Quote:
I was looking up "catio" ideas, and let me tell you, I wish that I had my own place and the money to do this:
I feel very fortunate that our house has a large screened patio which is where the cats stay and play and snooze all day. But it is a boring patio not an exciting/inviting catio and I would love to create a more geared-to-the-cats environment out there. Saving up the pennies.
This morning I gathered them all up to bring them inside, because it was going to be cool enough not to have to open the door to let air in today. I decided to see how they would react. For the most part, they are okay, but the one who blossomed when she got to go outside whereas before she would hide and not have a life...she's not happy. She refused to eat, she refuses to come down from her perch, she refuses to let me pet her....man.
The reason it was so easy to get them all inside was because 4 of them were already inside with me, last night, by their own choice. The other two were outside, the mama and the mastermind. They were both in the yard the entire night.
I think I'll start the day outings and bringing them in at night time. I think they're going to be happier that way.
As for fencing or any type of "catio", I have to figure out how to create something that does not require any attachments to the fence that leave holes, and I have to find a way to make it decent looking. Not just because I want it decent looking, but because I don't need neighbors whining about things...you know how neighbors can get.
This morning I gathered them all up to bring them inside, because it was going to be cool enough not to have to open the door to let air in today. I decided to see how they would react. For the most part, they are okay, but the one who blossomed when she got to go outside whereas before she would hide and not have a life...she's not happy. She refused to eat, she refuses to come down from her perch, she refuses to let me pet her....man.
The reason it was so easy to get them all inside was because 4 of them were already inside with me, last night, by their own choice. The other two were outside, the mama and the mastermind. They were both in the yard the entire night.
I think I'll start the day outings and bringing them in at night time. I think they're going to be happier that way.
As for fencing or any type of "catio", I have to figure out how to create something that does not require any attachments to the fence that leave holes, and I have to find a way to make it decent looking. Not just because I want it decent looking, but because I don't need neighbors whining about things...you know how neighbors can get.
Yup I know exactly what you mean.
Changing routines sometimes takes a while, so "Blossom" might be quite disgruntled for a bit. I feel your frustration though! If there's anything she considers a reward, such as a specific treat or something, perhaps add the action of giving a treat to the routine of you're-all-in-for-the-night. Eventually she'll rationalize that being stuck inside with all the others might not be ideal, but she'll realize that it comes with a treat and it isn't forever.
Although cats don't think about the future like we do - they don't comprehend time in a human way -- they can learn to understand routines and live with them knowing that one course of action (I'm-in-for-the-night) will lead to another (I'll-get-out-again-soon). It's all about consistency and the building of trust. It takes time which is never very much fun for us or them.
Changing routines sometimes takes a while, so "Blossom" might be quite disgruntled for a bit. I feel your frustration though! If there's anything she considers a reward, such as a specific treat or something, perhaps add the action of giving a treat to the routine of you're-all-in-for-the-night. Eventually she'll rationalize that being stuck inside with all the others might not be ideal, but she'll realize that it comes with a treat and it isn't forever.
Although cats don't think about the future like we do - they don't comprehend time in a human way -- they can learn to understand routines and live with them knowing that one course of action (I'm-in-for-the-night) will lead to another (I'll-get-out-again-soon). It's all about consistency and the building of trust. It takes time which is never very much fun for us or them.
After an all day and nighter, and the moping by some of them, (for those without cats, let me tell you, they are full of drama), I let them out in the late morning today.
They raced through that doorway before I got to finish what I was saying, "Alright, you can be out during the day time, but at ni......."
At the rate they were going, I thought they were going to take off. What actually happened was that they flew out the door and then, stopped. They were fine. One of them jumped around in the grass, (the mama), the rest of them took up their usual spots on the patio and stretched themselves out for another day of doing absolutely nothing, but dang it all, it was NOT inside and that's all that mattered.
So, tonight is the first night we complete the: "out in the day okay, in at night starting at dinner time" cycle.
We'll see how this goes. I think this is going to work out.
I'm sure it will work out! (Sending positive thoughts :-) I can envision this eventually ... you open the door and state, "ok kids, backyard is closing for the evening" and a mopey group, with a chorus of "aw geez", will start slowly making its way in a not-straight path to the door sniffing every blade of grass along the way. That's sort of what I now get when I announce our screen patio is closing. Callie especially has to stretch, find invisible bugs to swat, occasionally sit and give her shoulder a cleaning (a cat's version of swearing at you), circle around this or that. And when she finally makes her way through the door, she kicks up her heels and scampers off to find the treat she knows is sitting on the counter over the sink (she's a tree dweller and that's her favorite spot - not a food prep area, so who cares, not me).
You'll of course have to keep us up-to-date, but what also might be interesting is to observe if there's less (or none at all) fence jumping with this new routine. That's still the disconcerting part. Hopefully none of the cats will feel a need to go outside the boundaries. We (the proverbially "we") can work on that next if necessary.
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