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If we well outside the industry saw this coming over the last couple of years, there is absolutely no excuse for Forest City to be caught by surprise, but it is a safe bet that they have been. That store is a massive amount of square footage at the mall and while its sales have obviously not been generating revenues up to that potential it is still going to hurt the owners and the city receipts.
Very likely, we will repeat the Montgomery Ward fiasco that was drug out over 7 years from 2000 to the end of December in 2006 to see Brickstreet purchase that location. This means the anchor will sit derelict for several years, with boarded up inside entrances and woeful landscaping that is overgrown and trash-strewn on the outside. Just in time for the Civic Center's new unveiling and developers to work on a new hotel across the street - what a pretty set up that will be!
I seriously doubt that a new retail anchor is going to move in and pick up the slack so that means either some form of new retailer, sub-dividing the location into smaller, more reasonably-sized properties or tearing the whole thing and placing something completely different at that site.
The city will hold its breath, make some enquiries and get the off-hand placations from Forest City that will mean nothing. A year from now when retail comes back into the news in the Christmas shopping holidays, people pick up the conversation and start asking questions again. It will be like the stupid situation with the shopping center off of I-79 that lost its bridge in the June floods. It will be almost a year before that center has commercial access again and most of the tenants are gone and are not coming back.
I have no hope that anyone with any power or accountability will do anything except complain about the loss of Sears at CTC. If the economy does have the uptick that seems evident then market conditions may force a solution but it is a safe bet that neither the Forest City or the city of Charleston is going to do anything about this loss.
We must not lose sight of the fact that this will also mean the Auto Center is on the chopping block and that is another valuable piece of retail space in the city that will sit because none of the major auto chains need more space in Charleston and none are not already represented by outlets here. That hoped-for new hotel has so many paces it can be set up, it is a good time to buy property at that intersection, fortunate times for them, so some one might benefit from this.
The article mentions that the Auto Center will close in February of 2017.
I'm not sure one can blame mall management for this. As you pointed out in an earlier post, there are numerous reasons for the disappearance of big box retail. I agree with you. I worked for Sears for several years. They built their particular reputation on always standing behind every product they sold. They had good reason to do that when American made products generally stood the test of time. That sort of quality simply is not available any longer, and today's consumers have been conditioned to accept cheaply made, foreign produced stuff that is available at comparatively low prices, often at Walmart or other discount outlets. In the process, in addition to the many market factors you mentioned, their niche in the market disappeared.
I am saddened to see this happen. Sears was a big part of my life for several years. Remember though, it isn't as though Forest City would have a line of other big box operators waiting with offers to rent a big box space in an urban shopping mall. Those other companies are faced with many of the same pressures facing Sears. My hunch is increasingly space being vacated by big box outlets will be filled by companies operating call centers and the like.
CT you are painting a dismal picture for me, thanks so very much!
If, as you say, a call-center is the future of such vacant spaces in malls, then we will have come full circle. You may or may not be old enough to remember the old Arcade across the walkway from the public library downtown, but it was that sort of space, retailers on the first floor and an eclectic mix, doctors, lawyers and other obscure interest like private investigators took up residence on the 2nd floor that had a wrap around balcony looking down into the retail arcade.
I hope we can do better than something like Ticket Master being in the mall.
I do disagree somewhat about the blame being on the mall operators however. Everyone good business operations has a risk assessment package and plan for doomsdays and those that operate malls, where retailers come and go really have no excuse for not having some sort of plan in place for such an event. Granted, Sears, like the other anchors are not actually part of the mall and operating under the management of the mall operators but the other non-anchor retailers only maintain commercial viability if the anchors are viable. It is the anchors that bring in the shoppers and not the boutiques.
With Sears suffering one wave of closures after another every 6 months or so, the retailers that need new locations and or have the means to expand yet again are probably all tapped out. Add to the auto center and possibly the K-Mart stores in the valley and Charleston metro has a lot of commercial on the market in what is undeniably the slowest quarter of the retail year.
I know we have discusses many replacement strategies and I think the worst idea on this board is a home run compared to your bleak prophesy. That is not a criticism of you just or the logic behind your stark prediction because it is very likely the outcome we should brace ourselves for.
Forest City is probably thinking they should just put a Walmart in there and transform Town Center into another one of those bland polyester malls.
the best part of this story is Sears is NOT going out of business. Just another round of store closings. Hopefully the PTB can either get Macys to move into the new bigger renovated space or attract a high end department store like Dillards Belk or BonTon. If every Sears store in the US was closing at the same time, this would be a boarded up space. Lets hope the city and Forest City have a plan.
If Dillard's already passed this mall up one time then no way they come in now with the state of the mall and the local economy. I doubt Belk will chance it either. BonTon was in financial trouble last time I checked and closing stores under their umbrella as well. Not a pretty picture. Barring an alien landing on the parking garage roof or an economic miracle happening really fast if ever at all not sure the mall does much with the space anytime soon.
CT you are painting a dismal picture for me, thanks so very much!
If, as you say, a call-center is the future of such vacant spaces in malls, then we will have come full circle. You may or may not be old enough to remember the old Arcade across the walkway from the public library downtown, but it was that sort of space, retailers on the first floor and an eclectic mix, doctors, lawyers and other obscure interest like private investigators took up residence on the 2nd floor that had a wrap around balcony looking down into the retail arcade.
I hope we can do better than something like Ticket Master being in the mall.
I don't mean to bum you out with my opinion. I just don't see your mall situation in Charleston as being any different than it is anywhere else in the country. Those sorts of facilities are distressed everywhere, and Sears big box operations are in that situation too. I think they will disappear nearly everywhere soon, not just in Charleston. What do you see as a viable alternative for that space? Considering competitive pressures from e-sales, Walmart and the like big box is on the way out and replacing that store with a similar operation will be very difficult. Also, given population trends in Kanawha, getting investors (who definitely pay attention to such trends) to put money in there for more retail would take a miracle. If they are going to make a heavy investment, you can be sure they will explore all options... not just the mall.
I think almost any mall in a similar situation (and there aren't many healthy ones anywhere) would be happy to get a call center moving in to rent the space. The public, obviously would not be happy with that, but the owners would likely consider it better than having vacant space.
I don't mean to bum you out with my opinion. I just don't see your mall situation in Charleston as being any different than it is anywhere else in the country. Those sorts of facilities are distressed everywhere, and Sears big box operations are in that situation too. I think they will disappear nearly everywhere soon, not just in Charleston. What do you see as a viable alternative for that space? Considering competitive pressures from e-sales, Walmart and the like big box is on the way out and replacing that store with a similar operation will be very difficult. Also, given population trends in Kanawha, getting investors (who definitely pay attention to such trends) to put money in there for more retail would take a miracle. If they are going to make a heavy investment, you can be sure they will explore all options... not just the mall.
I think almost any mall in a similar situation (and there aren't many healthy ones anywhere) would be happy to get a call center moving in to rent the space. The public, obviously would not be happy with that, but the owners would likely consider it better than having vacant space.
Oh I wasn't bummed out that much because what you said was logical and likely. Some malls across America are thriving and I mean busting at the seams thriving. Others die within a year two of opening. It is a combination of factors that drives some under while others can do no wrong. Charleston, in spite of what I would call atrocious management by Forest city and the shortsighted and narrow-minded vision offered by CURA in the Montgomery Ward to Brickstreet turnover, has many things going for it to have a successful mall. I think Town Centers continued ability to add to Forest City's bottom line is proof that CTC has the magic ingredients to thrive.
However, even the goose that lays the golden egg can be slain and CTC now stands on the edge of the blade. A mall designed for 4 anchors can survive on three but it cannot survive on 2. At that point it becomes unstable and the smaller boutiques begin to die because there are insufficient anchors drawing in crowds. Again, though the location of CTC sandwiched between the Civic Center and a cluster of hotels means it can rely on life support from the convention business, but it will take more to be a destination.
It has been mentioned that Macy's might want to relocate from their current 2-floor store into the larger 3-floor Sears location and I don't see it. Neither does JC Penney need more space and I think we can safely write off both Dillard's and Belk's they turned their noses up when the environment was better and there is even less reason to insert themselves into the Charleston market at this time.
I used to live in Cincinnati and there is a mall on the northwest part of the outer loop called Forest Fair. It was never a success because it tried to be a smaller version of the Mall of America and was easily the largest mall in Cincinnati but it had far less business than the profitable malls of Kenwood Town Center, Tri-County and Florence. Forest Fair tried the compartmentalizing of the vacant anchors into smaller spaces and they failed at it three times. One of those efforts was to create a club zone with several restaurant and pubs and it died the fastest. I understand that mall has gotten to the pint that it is being broken up into a series of stand alone stores with no mall connectors at all.
I think for this reason, sub-dividing Sears is not going to work. First of all the structure is old. It was built in 82-83 and has no updates beyond cosmetic. 35 years is a long time in any business to do nothing but take in money. The site would need to be gutted down to the structure and rebuilt completely to viable to a new tenant.
If we assume that breaking up the site is not viable and that Macy's has no need to move and that Dillard's and Belk's have no desire to move in, what is left? I had offered the idea that the new hotel might actually want the site but that would be hit on the malls stability because the mall would no longer have sufficient anchor mass to draw in shoppers; the only people going there in that set up would be the hotel guests and conventioneers and as I have postulated earlier, that is life support not success.
There is no other way around it, Sears must be replaced by another anchor. CURA stepped in and bought the Montgomery Ward site when they thought a discount retailer was going to move in - Charleston Department Store wanted the site. So my jest that Walmart should move in is a non-starter. CTC has a problem similar to historical downtown shopping districts in that both are squeezed by sub-urban shopping centers that offer ease of transit and a variety of the common stores. Adding a common brand is not going to be the answer. CTC has to become the place that you can only get product X because those outlets do not end up in sub-urban malls and strip centers.
It was a while back that we talked about Off Rack chains of high brands being a good answer for this need but as much as I love my town and my state as a people we wallow in our "hillbillyness" and it shows in the way we dress. Good fashion would not be recognized by 99% of West Virginia's people. A case in point was a year ago some concert was in town and every woman and girl on street walking to the Civic Center had on clunky cowboy boots and far too short and hideous mini skirts along with some sloppy t shirt. It was a parade of the ugly and I assumed it had something to do with the venue, but in a more metropolitan city you might see the same style but done better. These women had Goodwill written all over them.
But, again the mall serves as a convention magnet as much as it is a destination for exclusive shopping and while I have my doubts that higher fashion outlets could be considered, the right one might work. but these are usually not big stores and the location is gargantuan.
In the end, unless something falls into our lap I do not have a surefire solution and I think anything that any of us here might suggest would be iffy at best.
I think the Hotel will go in on the Fifth Quarter site since there are three major chains looking in on the option. CURA has become involved in making sure the Sears building is wasted - whatever that means and I think the Auto Center is torn down and if we are lucky something decent will go in there to complement the other developments underway.
I am still of the opinion that the Sears space needs broken up. The structure would have to be completely gutted, but I honestly don't see a situation in where another anchor store will come in.
My vision for the redevelopment is expensive and highly unlikely, but just for fun I'll share it anyways. It would require major enhancements to the exterior, including some new construction in some parts.
Current footprint of Sears Property from sidewalks towards mall and garage Approximately 82,000 Sq ft. (estimated from Google Maps)
Current footprint of Sears Auto property 65.000 sq ft. (estimated from Google Maps)
Phase 1.
1st floor of Sears:
Have a major restaurant (Cheesecake Factory/ Joe's Crab Shack/ The Melting Pot/ etc...) go in beside The Chop House. This would require of course exterior modifications. There would be an outside entrance as well as an entrance into the mall. Probably forcing Suddenlink to move to another spot. Next, put a store in the remaining space available with an outside entrance along Quarrier Street. My preference for this spot would be Trader Joe's. It is a destination store that would serve two purposes. 1). Bring in a brand name that would draw people from the entire region. 2). Put a grocery store downtown to encourage further investment in downtown living (which fits with phase 2). Again, major exterior change would need to take place, but I could see the entrance to the development roughly where the current Sears entrance is.
It would be optional to add another store into this layout, but it would either have no mall entrance or no exterior entrance.
2nd floor of Sears
I'd love to see two stores occupy this space, each taking half of the floor. Some room would be reserved for a new stairwell and elevator to the 3rd floor or if possible the utilization of the current ones to have access to the 3rd floor. The first store that comes to mind would be an Old Navy. The square footage would probably work perfectly for them, and I know that they have shown interest before. The second space might be another clothing store, but personally I'd like to see something more geared to recreation. REI would be awesome!
3rd floor:
With access to the 2nd floor entrance to the mall, here is where I'd put a gym. Gold's, LA Fitness, or Planet Fitness could establish a downtown presence. This would tie into my reasoning for putting Trader Joe's. Having services that draw younger people downtown, and encouraging the development of more downtown living spaces. With this spce, I'd make sure that the renovations included windows that overlooked the streets below. There would be even space for a juice bar.
Phase 2:
The Sears Auto Lot:
I would demolish the current structure and build a mixed use building(s) there. 5-6 stories seems tall enough, with its own parking component. The bottom floor could feature a few other businesses and a coffee shop. The 2nd-3rd floors could hold offices, while the remaining space was residential. Any variation would serve this space well. There would be a grocery store next door, as well as a gym, and dozens of restaurants and stores.
You tie that in with a remodeled Civic Center and a new high end hotel, and you have yourself a modern intersection full of new life and density. This would hopefully encourage the adjacent property (beside Holiday Inn Express) to be redeveloped.
I will try to come up with some visuals so that you all can see what I am seeing! LOL
I am still of the opinion that the Sears space needs broken up. The structure would have to be completely gutted, but I honestly don't see a situation in where another anchor store will come in.
My vision for the redevelopment is expensive and highly unlikely, but just for fun I'll share it anyways. It would require major enhancements to the exterior, including some new construction in some parts.
Current footprint of Sears Property from sidewalks towards mall and garage Approximately 82,000 Sq ft. (estimated from Google Maps)
Current footprint of Sears Auto property 65.000 sq ft. (estimated from Google Maps)
Phase 1.
1st floor of Sears:
Have a major restaurant (Cheesecake Factory/ Joe's Crab Shack/ The Melting Pot/ etc...) go in beside The Chop House. This would require of course exterior modifications. There would be an outside entrance as well as an entrance into the mall. Probably forcing Suddenlink to move to another spot. Next, put a store in the remaining space available with an outside entrance along Quarrier Street. My preference for this spot would be Trader Joe's. It is a destination store that would serve two purposes. 1). Bring in a brand name that would draw people from the entire region. 2). Put a grocery store downtown to encourage further investment in downtown living (which fits with phase 2). Again, major exterior change would need to take place, but I could see the entrance to the development roughly where the current Sears entrance is.
It would be optional to add another store into this layout, but it would either have no mall entrance or no exterior entrance.
2nd floor of Sears
I'd love to see two stores occupy this space, each taking half of the floor. Some room would be reserved for a new stairwell and elevator to the 3rd floor or if possible the utilization of the current ones to have access to the 3rd floor. The first store that comes to mind would be an Old Navy. The square footage would probably work perfectly for them, and I know that they have shown interest before. The second space might be another clothing store, but personally I'd like to see something more geared to recreation. REI would be awesome!
3rd floor:
With access to the 2nd floor entrance to the mall, here is where I'd put a gym. Gold's, LA Fitness, or Planet Fitness could establish a downtown presence. This would tie into my reasoning for putting Trader Joe's. Having services that draw younger people downtown, and encouraging the development of more downtown living spaces. With this spce, I'd make sure that the renovations included windows that overlooked the streets below. There would be even space for a juice bar.
Phase 2:
The Sears Auto Lot:
I would demolish the current structure and build a mixed use building(s) there. 5-6 stories seems tall enough, with its own parking component. The bottom floor could feature a few other businesses and a coffee shop. The 2nd-3rd floors could hold offices, while the remaining space was residential. Any variation would serve this space well. There would be a grocery store next door, as well as a gym, and dozens of restaurants and stores.
You tie that in with a remodeled Civic Center and a new high end hotel, and you have yourself a modern intersection full of new life and density. This would hopefully encourage the adjacent property (beside Holiday Inn Express) to be redeveloped.
I will try to come up with some visuals so that you all can see what I am seeing! LOL
Those sound like great ideas, and I hope somebody takes notice of them. At the same time, I can't tell you how sorry I am to see this happening to Sears. They were a big part of my life for some time, and I see their demise as a big loss for our country, both economically and even culturally.
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