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I respect Nostra-copus99, he hung around for the beat-down and fighting hard to the finish to find holes in Cam's performance each week and surely we know he has quite a few.
Ok, on Tebow, all I told everyone is that Tebow is the MOST driven football player I've ever seen. If you remember the post-game interview in '08 after that Ole Miss lost, I was sold on that guy:
That 08 team was stacked with talent... great speech but c'mon, look at 2009 when Harvin and half the D left. Where was the speech then?
I like what Tebow stands for, I like his message but something about it rubs me the wrong way. It just seems like his prayer, his drive and his belief trumps other in the NFL or college. They said there would never be another QB like Tebow in the SEC and the next year Cam destroys the SEC.
It's football not war or famine... I get it, he is the good guy but his drive isn't any better then the next guy. He may be better or make a better play on a drive but his drive is no different then the guy from the slums who makes it out or the guy with no talent who works hard to beat out better talent like a Wes Welker or Hines Ward.
It'll be same other stat next week that will become important...oh wait, yea, whatever stat that makes Cam seem inadequate or not a "good QB".....not a duck but more akin to a snake oil product.
It has always been the same... I measure "QB" (i.e. not rushing QB, but the pocket/throwing QB) on stats by completion percentage and touchdown to interceptions. Period.
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Originally Posted by FeltDesigner
I can almost imagine him grinding his teeth, knee's shaking while pulling up stats in a cold sweat on a dial-up internet when Cam is putting on a show.
He has two wins over Indy (i.e. a team with ZERO wins) and TB (i.e. a team without their QB who has been slumping since his injury). To the rest of the comment, I am not. Ponder plays with less targets and has better "QB stats." Dalton plays against better defensive teams in division. Both are facts.
The only reason I bring up any of these guys is to continue to prove that this team could have done just as good drafting a guy below Newton and using that pick to pick up other guys/positions in addition to getting a QB who could lead in the future. The draft class for QB last year has shown up to this point to be a good class. Plain and simple.
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Originally Posted by BigAristotle
I respect Nostra-copus99, he hung around for the beat-down and fighting hard to the finish to find holes in Cam's performance each week and surely we know he has quite a few.
This week all I said was the positives with zero negative comments. Was he not the #2 in rushing yardage during that game? Did he not have the most rushing touchdowns on the season? Did I not say he had a really nice drive to finish out the 2nd? Just want that to be clear...
As for Tebow, I firmly believe that God keeps him winning. There is no other way to explain it. He isn't the best QB yet he works extremely hard. Each week Denver seems to somehow come out of some big hole to win games i.e. this past weekend needing a turnover in Minn's 2 minutes drive in the fourth, the week prior he prayed for a miss field goal and it happened, etc.
That 08 team was stacked with talent... great speech but c'mon, look at 2009 when Harvin and half the D left. Where was the speech then?
Offense was really Tebow and Harvin with one good offensive lineman (Pouncey). Defense was solid, a few standouts. The Defense really didn't lose as much as they returned and the guys behind them were better. The real loss was Harvin (who in my opinion was better than Tebow as he was harder to guard) and Mullen, i.e. the true brains in that offense, who got hired at Miss St. When these two left, the descent from a great team started to happen. Tebow graduated and Meyer's system crumbled, resulting in him retiring due to stress.
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I like what Tebow stands for, I like his message but something about it rubs me the wrong way. It just seems like his prayer, his drive and his belief trumps other in the NFL or college. They said there would never be another QB like Tebow in the SEC and the next year Cam destroys the SEC.
I agree except to that last point. When UF lost to Ole Miss, Tebow took it on his shoulders made a huge claim and back it up. This speech made is now plaqued on the walls of Ben Griffin Stadium (i.e. the Swamp); something hardly any player has ever accomplished. They also backed him up. They won by big margins, something that Auburn/Newton team could ever do. Auburn during their time escaped half their games... yes escaped by things happening at the end of the game. This never happened to that 2008 UF team. The scary thing was is that everybody knew that 7-8 plays they ran on offense, knowing only two players would potentially have the ball, yet no one could stop them. Tebow, not only was the hardest worker out there, he also built huge team unity and got a bunch of guys to stick out their careers together (i.e. all four years) when alot of them could go pro. This is why there hasn't been a guy like him in College but it far to think someone could impact as much as he did.
It has always been the same... I measure "QB" (i.e. not rushing QB, but the pocket/throwing QB) on stats by completion percentage and touchdown to interceptions. Period.
He has two wins over Indy (i.e. a team with ZERO wins) and TB (i.e. a team without their QB who has been slumping since his injury). To the rest of the comment, I am not. Ponder plays with less targets and has better "QB stats." Dalton plays against better defensive teams in division. Both are facts.
The only reason I bring up any of these guys is to continue to prove that this team could have done just as good drafting a guy below Newton and using that pick to pick up other guys/positions in addition to getting a QB who could lead in the future. The draft class for QB last year has shown up to this point to be a good class. Plain and simple.
Ponder has less targets? LOL...I've never heard a person so delusional when it comes to the talent the Panthers have at WR and TE. Usually the great targets are coveted by their last team and not released or traded.
Dalton feasted on bad teams as well and is now getting into the tough part of the schedule and he came back to earth.
We wouldn't even have half the wins with those other QB's because they can't move and throw on the run. Dalton was crushed by the rush the last few weeks. He is a statue. Ponder is good but he isn't on Cam's level.
Offense was really Tebow and Harvin with one good offensive lineman (Pouncey). Defense was solid, a few standouts. The Defense really didn't lose as much as they returned and the guys behind them were better. The real loss was Harvin (who in my opinion was better than Tebow as he was harder to guard) and Mullen, i.e. the true brains in that offense, who got hired at Miss St. When these two left, the descent from a great team started to happen. Tebow graduated and Meyer's system crumbled, resulting in him retiring due to stress.
I agree except to that last point. When UF lost to Ole Miss, Tebow took it on his shoulders made a huge claim and back it up. This speech made is now plaqued on the walls of Ben Griffin Stadium (i.e. the Swamp); something hardly any player has ever accomplished. They also backed him up. They won by big margins, something that Auburn/Newton team could ever do. Auburn during their time escaped half their games... yes escaped by things happening at the end of the game. This never happened to that 2008 UF team. The scary thing was is that everybody knew that 7-8 plays they ran on offense, knowing only two players would potentially have the ball, yet no one could stop them. Tebow, not only was the hardest worker out there, he also built huge team unity and got a bunch of guys to stick out their careers together (i.e. all four years) when alot of them could go pro. This is why there hasn't been a guy like him in College but it far to think someone could impact as much as he did.
Were does Harvin play now?
Tebow and Hansbrough were marketed as the hardest worker and biggest hearts because it was great for college athletics. These kids were great for college because they played 4 years and had the wholesome look but they didn't "work" any harder then the next guy.
Who cares about point margin... those other SEC teams have good players so who knows how their teams changed during those years as well.
This isn't about Tebow vs Cam though.. sorry if it came off that way. I just think the speech and making a plaque, banning other players from putting scriptures on their faces after Tebow left as well as talking about Tebow during other SEC games was too much.
Dude is good and all but they pretty much forced this kid as some christian second coming of God knows who QB who works in his sleep and cries tears that cure cancer.
He isn't the first football player with a good heart and he won't be the last. I wish Warrick Dunn would get the pub Tebow got because that guy did so much for people it's insane.
Tebow and Hansbrough were marketed as the hardest worker and biggest hearts because it was great for college athletics. These kids were great for college because they played 4 years and had the wholesome look but they didn't "work" any harder then the next guy.
Who cares about point margin... those other SEC teams have good players so who knows how their teams changed during those years as well.
This isn't about Tebow vs Cam though.. sorry if it came off that way. I just think the speech and making a plaque, banning other players from putting scriptures on their faces after Tebow left as well as talking about Tebow during other SEC games was too much.
Dude is good and all but they pretty much forced this kid as some christian second coming of God knows who QB who works in his sleep and cries tears that cure cancer.
He isn't the first football player with a good heart and he won't be the last. I wish Warrick Dunn would get the pub Tebow got because that guy did so much for people it's insane.
Yea, I think the christian or holier-than-thou thing is what turns some people off causing a ton of resentment with plenty of critics and others hoping-he-will fail. Usually, those with above average skillsets don't get credited for their hard work because it seems so effortless. His ambition to play QB in the NFL was met with laughter in many NFL circles (even more so than Cam), but I'd never doubt anyone will that kind of willpower. Obviously he isn't the only player with the fortitude to succeed against all odds/circumstances.
My point was not so much he works "harder" than anyone else but I've taken the attitude of "why would you bet against him"? The GM, coaching staff, etc didn't wanna play him.
Yea, I think the christian or holier-than-thou thing is what turns some people off causing a ton of resentment with plenty of critics and others hoping-he-will fail. Usually, those with above average skillsets don't get credited for their hard work because it seems so effortless. His ambition to play QB in the NFL was met with laughter in many NFL circles (even more so than Cam), but I'd never doubt anyone will that kind of willpower. Obviously he isn't the only player with the fortitude to succeed against all odds/circumstances.
My point was not so much he works "harder" than anyone else but I've taken the attitude of "why would you bet against him"? The GM, coaching staff, etc didn't wanna play him.
I wouldn't want to play him either if I was the GM or a new HC. It's not ideal at all to win the way Tebow wins. He is looking better throwing lately but if I'm an NFL WR on Tebow's team it's going to be real hard for me to show how good I am at my position. It's like an NBA team running 4 corners all game or a baseball team who bunts and plays slap ball because they don't have any HR hitters.
It's a fun short term solution but I think franchises want QB's who can throw down field consistently. Now they have Tebow mania but what about a year or 2 from now if he doesn't get any better? I'm not sure they can get away with 8 passes a half the next 3 to 5 years.
I wouldn't want to play him either if I was the GM or a new HC. It's not ideal at all to win the way Tebow wins. He is looking better throwing lately but if I'm an NFL WR on Tebow's team it's going to be real hard for me to show how good I am at my position. It's like an NBA team running 4 corners all game or a baseball team who bunts and plays slap ball because they don't have any HR hitters.
It's a fun short term solution but I think franchises want QB's who can throw down field consistently. Now they have Tebow mania but what about a year or 2 from now if he doesn't get any better? I'm not sure they can get away with 8 passes a half the next 3 to 5 years.
Its fun to watch though...
Oh I hear ya, but I'm not gonna bet against the guy and good feeling he'll be around for a while (as a QB). He has an awkward slow throwing motion but much better passer than given credit. Bet against Tebow? Nope, not me.
Ponder has less targets? LOL...I've never heard a person so delusional when it comes to the talent the Panthers have at WR and TE. Usually the great targets are coveted by their last team and not released or traded.
Olsen to date has caught over half the balls targeted in his direction. His numbers would be pushing real well if he didn't split time with Shockey.
Next you got the Top 5 Steve Smith. He has two great runningbacks, Williams and Stewart, to dump balls as well.
Now lets look at Ponder...
You have Peterson, underachieving this year. Still though a good weapon. Then what... Harvin? Alright, on any other team pushed to kick returns. Who else is there... Shiancoe... Jenkins... Camerillo... come on dude. These cats aren't even anywhere close to people that Panthers have at the skill positions. Heck, even Naanee with those butter fingers are better than those guys.
Fun Fact: All 3 of Carolina's runningbacks average more yards per carry (each) than Minnesota's main weapon Peterson.
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Dalton feasted on bad teams as well and is now getting into the tough part of the schedule and he came back to earth.
We will see how Newton handles Houston's top defense in 2 weeks. Cincy gets them this upcoming weekend.
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....not a duck but more akin to a snake oil product.
