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Apples and Oranges. If that company wanted to move its headquaters here and "create" 400 jobs, they can have $20 million too.
Zero minus 400 is negative 400. Zero plus 400 is positive 400. Average them together, and you have nothing.
However, if you kept yourself from going 400 in the negative (and added 400 too), you now have a positive 400. In other words, a net gain of 400 jobs just happened. So no, this is not an "apples and oranges" comparison. Chiquita vs Terminal Trucking (and many other situations like it) is EXACTLY why Charlotte's unemployment rate is so high. Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas
^^^Out of 372 MSAs, we are #318 (Detroit is #342 btw). With numbers like these, can you honestly say that an effort to save Terminal Trucking would have been pointless?
Zero minus 400 is negative 400. Zero plus 400 is positive 400. Average them together, and you have nothing.
However, if you kept yourself from going 400 in the negative (and added 400 too), you now have a positive 400. In other words, a net gain of 400 jobs just happened. So no, this is not an "apples and oranges" comparison. Chiquita vs Terminal Trucking (and many other situations like it) is EXACTLY why Charlotte's unemployment rate is so high. Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas
^^^Out of 372 MSAs, we are #318 (Detroit is #342 btw). With numbers like these, can you honestly say that an effort to save Terminal Trucking would have been pointless?
I think that looking at the balance sheet is an important distinction. If Terminal Trucking is on the fritz, then subsidizing them over time just becomes a continuous black hole of resources. Chiquita has a strong balance sheet and will be able to flourish without a government handout after this initial seed money. It was relocation money, not prop-up money.
I'd rather we spend the next $22 million on attracting more up-and-coming companies (like established high tech companies or VC companies) than in industries that have limited growth potential. Silicon Valley only continues to be Silicon Valley because it has been Silicon Valley. If you were starting from scratch there is absolutely no reason to locate such a prolific economic engine in a state and business environment that is taxed to death, has high operating costs, and extremely high cost of living. And VCs invest there because they've been investing there - all about connections and comfort. On paper, NC is better in almost every possible metric. I talk to board of director members and VC funds all the time and they are always quizzical as to why NC never attracts angel investors, VC funding, or tech. companies - until you ask them to make the first move, and they cower. They always say the same thing - the political environment here is too "good ol' boy" and fractious for them. A concerted and visionary effort needs to be made by our state to entice proven companies in "industries of the future" (no, I'm not talking about Solyndra, but actual market movers with great balance sheets) to move here. If nothing else, show Silicon Valley computer programmers what sort of house they'd get for half the salary here in NC versus the cramped condo. they have to rent right now in Sunnyvale, CA.
It sure does! You bailout the corporate office with $22 million; make them relocate their corporate HQ to Concord (and they must stay in Concord for at least 10 years). Then (as part of the deal) get them to restructure the company by sending 50% of the jobs in those other cities to Concord (in addition to keeping the 200 that were already here). Impossible? No! Has it been done before? You answer that one...
I take that back. Concord IS the company's HQ (just looked it up). WOW, this would have been an EASY fix. I wonder how much was needed to keep this company going? 5mil, 10mil? (if that). What a shame..... A local company with 60 years of history, gone. The average pay of a local trucker is anywhere from $40,000 to $55,000 a year. The unemployment checks won't pay these folks close to that much. Yet we have the money to help out corporate big wigs from Ohio with salaries well over $100,000 a year. Shameful...
We aren't bailing out the banana company.
What's the point of keeping a failing company going? I could see if Terminal was only closing the Concord office but they are closing up in a few states so it's pretty bad.
No one is stopping the private sector (besides Obama and the looney libs) from investing 5 million to keep Terminal going. $5 million isn't a lot of money so if they only needed 5 or 10 mill to keep things going someone would step in right?
There are a ton of rail road tracks in Charlotte and I think gas and rails are putting a hurt on the trucking industry.
I think that looking at the balance sheet is an important distinction. If Terminal Trucking is on the fritz, then subsidizing them over time just becomes a continuous black hole of resources. Chiquita has a strong balance sheet and will be able to flourish without a government handout after this initial seed money. It was relocation money, not prop-up money.
I'd rather we spend the next $22 million on attracting more up-and-coming companies (like established high tech companies or VC companies) than in industries that have limited growth potential. Silicon Valley only continues to be Silicon Valley because it has been Silicon Valley. If you were starting from scratch there is absolutely no reason to locate such a prolific economic engine in a state and business environment that is taxed to death, has high operating costs, and extremely high cost of living. And VCs invest there because they've been investing there - all about connections and comfort. On paper, NC is better in almost every possible metric. I talk to board of director members and VC funds all the time and they are always quizzical as to why NC never attracts angel investors, VC funding, or tech. companies - until you ask them to make the first move, and they cower. They always say the same thing - the political environment here is too "good ol' boy" and fractious for them. A concerted and visionary effort needs to be made by our state to entice proven companies in "industries of the future" (no, I'm not talking about Solyndra, but actual market movers with great balance sheets) to move here. If nothing else, show Silicon Valley computer programmers what sort of house they'd get for half the salary here in NC versus the cramped condo. they have to rent right now in Sunnyvale, CA.
Why not let the snobs stay in California, invest in our own startups, run them (the snobs) out of business, and place the snobs in a position to come running here for a jobs (taking whatever leftovers they can get from the locals)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner
There are a ton of rail road tracks in Charlotte and I think gas and rails are putting a hurt on the trucking industry.
Diesel yes, rail not so much. Rail actually creates local trucking jobs (the train can't take the stuff to Walmart's loading dock). Fuel however is one of the industry's biggest expense (followed by the trucks/trailers and driver pay). In most cases, paying off the trucks or restructuring their truck loans would make a huge difference. It would also help folks at places like the Freightliner plant stay in business. A brand new truck (just the tractor, not the trailer) can EASILY exceed $100,000. On top of that, most companies must show $5 million cash on hand at all times for accident deductibles. Without this, you're pretty much out of business.
If we can't keep our freight companies in business (one of the few jobs that can't be sent overseas) then America has a serious problem.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 12-01-2011 at 09:35 AM..
Why not let the snobs stay in California, invest in our own startups, run them (the snobs) out of business, and place the snobs in a position to come running here for a jobs (taking whatever leftovers they can get from the locals)?
I think the proper term is geek and doesn't the tech triangle have some of this going on or is it all healthcare?
I think the proper term is geek and doesn't the tech triangle have some of this going on or is it all healthcare?
The proper term for the those in that industry is "geek". However, quite a few of the ones in California look down on NC (and the south as a whole) as if we're a bunch of toothless, uneducated, NASCAR loving..... You get the picture; they're "snobs". Not all, but quite a few are.
As for the Triangle, that area seems to be full of glorified drug makers (the same thing that Mr. "Dollar Bill" does on the corner of Craighead and North Tryon; he just wears a slightly different "uniform"). Just kidding....
Trucking is a commodity business needed in every locale.
The truckers that get displaced from this company will more than likely end up at another one down the road.
The HQ jobs are indeed a loss, but even soem of those could be picked up as other loacla firms expand in Terminal's absense.
This is true. However, I've seen it happen "other ways" too. For example, many of the "other companies" out there are already slow. They will gladly take some of Terminal's work (thus giving their own drivers more hours of work per week), while not hiring any of Terminal's drivers. Also, there is the loss of dispatchers and folks within the HQ (as you've stated). This is just not good news, no matter how hard we try to rationalize it.
The proper term for the those in that industry is "geek". However, quite a few of the ones in California look down on NC (and the south as a whole) as if we're a bunch of toothless, uneducated, NASCAR loving..... You get the picture; they're "snobs". Not all, but quite a few are.
As for the Triangle, that area seems to be full of glorified drug makers (the same thing that Mr. "Dollar Bill" does on the corner of Craighead and North Tryon; he just wears a slightly different "uniform"). Just kidding....
On the second part of your post, you don't have to say just kidding, man. You spoke one of those "sad but true" statements right there. Standing on the corner, big bubble coat with a gun in your waistband? Go straight to jail. Working in a laboratory, that gives the government "its cut" with government approved armed security outside with guns in their wasitbands? Oh, well. You need a government subsidy then! Again, sad but true.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueheronNC
I think that looking at the balance sheet is an important distinction. If Terminal Trucking is on the fritz, then subsidizing them over time just becomes a continuous black hole of resources. Chiquita has a strong balance sheet and will be able to flourish without a government handout after this initial seed money. It was relocation money, not prop-up money.
I'd rather we spend the next $22 million on attracting more up-and-coming companies (like established high tech companies or VC companies) than in industries that have limited growth potential. Silicon Valley only continues to be Silicon Valley because it has been Silicon Valley. If you were starting from scratch there is absolutely no reason to locate such a prolific economic engine in a state and business environment that is taxed to death, has high operating costs, and extremely high cost of living. And VCs invest there because they've been investing there - all about connections and comfort. On paper, NC is better in almost every possible metric. I talk to board of director members and VC funds all the time and they are always quizzical as to why NC never attracts angel investors, VC funding, or tech. companies - until you ask them to make the first move, and they cower. They always say the same thing - the political environment here is too "good ol' boy" and fractious for them. A concerted and visionary effort needs to be made by our state to entice proven companies in "industries of the future" (no, I'm not talking about Solyndra, but actual market movers with great balance sheets) to move here. If nothing else, show Silicon Valley computer programmers what sort of house they'd get for half the salary here in NC versus the cramped condo. they have to rent right now in Sunnyvale, CA.
22 million is a lot of money, but it's over 11 years, with lots of strings attached.
As for high tech, Kings Mountain is working on that with a data center park which, so far, will all be of the cloud variety of data centers. 2 are sold, although in the case of one company, they have a back-out clause until December 31. After the 1st of the year it will become finalized & officially public knowledge. Right now it's the worst kept secret in NC. Another high tech company has been looking near the data center park.
I looked at the trucking company's website & they catered to textiles, which is all but dead.
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