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I'll leave this one alone.
I saw nothing "snarky" about them at all. Lowes is busy with "other issues" at the moment and 4 out of 5 non-Mooresville area republicans on the board aren't interested in rail transit; point, blank, period. The 1 Mooresville area republican will vote no too just so he isn't ousted in the next election.
When there is growth (which we have) and EVERYONE wants "land and open space" (as long as they all get to own a piece of it) what do you have; you have metro Atlanta in roughly 30 years (you know, the city metro Charlotte doesn't wish to be like, but is headed there rapidly due to a lack of proper urban planning).
What in the world does the mentality of northern Iredell has to do with a train to Mooresville (and why not build a train to Winston as well)?
Besides, anyone who studies demographics knows that 50% of Iredell county's population will be south of Troutman by 2030. A plan to bring commuter rail to that particular part of the county is just a proactive approach to an obvious future transportation problem in our region. It's about giving people choices. Those folks can choose between an hour commute to Charlotte (in traffic); or a 30-45 minute train ride.
Anyways, politics will stop this train for now; so everything stated above is moot.
1. MARTA is familiar to folks in this region.
2. Yes, you were snarky just cause folks don't agree with your vision.
3. That 2030 plan you keep referring to . . . I would like to see it, cause the only planning I know was done in this region was based on projected figures from prior to 2008. Anyone who thinks Charlotte is gonna keep growing at rates of years past is smoking dope.
4. Politics are not what has stopped this rail. It doesn't mean folks in Iredell are being obstructionist b/c they disagree with Charlotte city fathers. Just because you are so enamored with the rest of the world becoming part of an outreach project for Charlotte, it doesn't mean others want the same thing.
Most conservatives don't want anything to do with rail transit. There are a few here that has seen the light (Pat McCrory and Thom Tillis to name a few) but the rural/suburban conservatives ain't trying to hear it. Iredell is as rural and conservative as it gets. Mooresville is a fast growing Lake Norman area suburb (who still has to answer to a county that has not seen the growth that Mooresville is now seeing).
IMO, there are two choices; wait for the growth to hit the rest of the county (and they'll be more willing to listen in Statesville) or Mooresville should find a way to fund this thing with or without the support from the county.
And BELIEVE me Jim; there are those hardcore conservatives who believes 100% that providing public transportation (something that is used mostly by "the po-folk") is a total waste of their tax dollars. In their opinions, the people riding transit should pay the total costs (while ignoring the fact that roads and education are heavily subsidized moreso than transit). Like I said, it's political. And politics (simply put) is "my ideology against YOUR ideology".
The REAL problem is that our society treats mass transit like an option. When was the last time we voted for or against keeping our public schools free of tuition? When was the last time we voted for or against having freeways in our cities? The truth is that those issues are not debatable (but transit is). IMO, the politics (ie, the debate) should be taken out of transit. That won't happen any time soon though (and the reasons for this goes FAR beyond North Carolina and the south).
You are so wrong. I love the way you make it all into some simplistic throw away answer: "politics."
You come up with the money - and no, you can't borrow more from the Chinese.
I especially love the way "progressives" are so quick to spend dollars that don't exist. Nothing ever changes, lol.
All the ideology, as you put it, doesn't mean a damn when you can't finance the grand plan.
You are so wrong. I love the way you make it all into some simplistic throw away answer: "politics."
You come up with the money - and no, you can't borrow more from the Chinese.
I especially love the way "progressives" are so quick to spend dollars that don't exist. Nothing ever changes, lol.
All the ideology, as you put it, doesn't mean a damn when you can't finance the grand plan.
Not to get too far off topic here; but you do realize that our entire financial system is based on the United States treasury borrowing money from the Federal Reserve (thus, creating money out of thin air). Then our banks make loans on money that doesn't exists as well. This leads to inflation (which is a "secret tax") and interest that can never be paid back (because the money was essentially created from a "debt" in the first place). These facts alone makes your entire stance on mass transit funding flawed and misguided; for there is nothing in our society that will result in "financial equilibrium".
Therefore, we should focus on the things that promote choices. I wish to choose between the roads or the rails. I'm not alone (in fact, I am in the majority here in Mecklenburg county). You saw the latest election results didn't you (the election that had you thinking about leaving Charlotte)
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Not to get too far off topic here; but you do realize that our entire financial system is based on the United States treasury borrowing money from the Federal Reserve (thus, creating money out of thin air). Then our banks make loans on money that doesn't exists as well. This leads to inflation (which is a "secret tax") and interest that can never be paid back (because the money was essentially created from a "debt" in the first place). These facts alone makes your entire stance on mass transit funding flawed and misguided; for there is nothing in our society that will result in "financial equilibrium".
Therefore, we should focus on the things that promote choices. I wish to choose between the roads or the rails. I'm not alone (in fact, I am in the majority here in Mecklenburg county). You saw the latest election results didn't you (the election that had you thinking about leaving Charlotte)
urban, if the folk in Iredell don't want the train, that their business. DOT & CATS have a choice. Either build a shorter line, to Davidson, or build a line where it's wanted - Gastonia & Kings Mountain. Oh, that's right, CATS doesn't want the people who want the line.
Maybe Mooresville is worried about all the crime that a light rail will bring to their town. There was some article a while back that claimed a restaurant had to shut down due to criminals riding the light rail to their area and breaking into cars.
The current plans for the red line will only go as far as Mount Mourne - just south of Lowes corporate.
Most conservatives don't want anything to do with rail transit. There are a few here that has seen the light (Pat McCrory and Thom Tillis to name a few) but the rural/suburban conservatives ain't trying to hear it. Iredell is as rural and conservative as it gets. Mooresville is a fast growing Lake Norman area suburb (who still has to answer to a county that has not seen the growth that Mooresville is now seeing).
IMO, there are two choices; wait for the growth to hit the rest of the county (and they'll be more willing to listen in Statesville) or Mooresville should find a way to fund this thing with or without the support from the county.
And BELIEVE me Jim; there are those hardcore conservatives who believes 100% that providing public transportation (something that is used mostly by "the po-folk") is a total waste of their tax dollars. In their opinions, the people riding transit should pay the total costs (while ignoring the fact that roads and education are heavily subsidized moreso than transit). Like I said, it's political. And politics (simply put) is "my ideology against YOUR ideology".
The REAL problem is that our society treats mass transit like an option. When was the last time we voted for or against keeping our public schools free of tuition? When was the last time we voted for or against having freeways in our cities? The truth is that those issues are not debatable (but transit is). IMO, the politics (ie, the debate) should be taken out of transit. That won't happen any time soon though (and the reasons for this goes FAR beyond North Carolina and the south).
You are off on this one. I know as many 'not conservatives' as conservatives that think that the rail is not a wise choice. These are mostly people that can't justfy it in their minds as they will not use it. They are not of a specific political mindset. I am a conservative (not a religious one), but I am nevertheless a conservative. I support the rail. Most of my friends think like me and they want the rail service too and they are conservatives. You can't use stereotypes to make a justification without having hard figures and expect a smart person to accept it at face value. There are plenty of conservatives that want the rail service. They can't be blamed for everything that is disagreeable. Maybe
it's George Bush's fault.
Why dont they just have it end in Davidson. That is what happen to express bus service when 83x was discontinued due to low ridership of daily average 59 passengers to Mooresville.
The 83x didn't go into downtown Mooresville-pick up was on the junction of Brawley and Williamson and Mooresville stopped subsidising it because the mayor at the time said that it was underused by people who live in the city (ie pay city taxes) Funny how he seemed to forget that the 2 largest,closest sub-divisions to the stop (Morrison plantation and Winslow bay) are in the city and pay city taxes.
The concerns about the red line (which is not currently planned to run into Mooresville ) are that running costs are under estimated and usage is over estimated.
The line will not run to Lowes headquarters and interestingly Lowes have not said yet whether they support the plan.
Iredell feel that local businesses who will benefit from the line would /should be funding some of the project if they feel that it's such a great plan.
The other comment I read was "why don't Norfolk and Southern do it?"
You are off on this one. I know as many 'not conservatives' as conservatives that think that the rail is not a wise choice. These are mostly people that can't justfy it in their minds as they will not use it. They are not of a specific political mindset. I am a conservative (not a religious one), but I am nevertheless a conservative. I support the rail. Most of my friends think like me and they want the rail service too and they are conservatives. You can't use stereotypes to make a justification without having hard figures and expect a smart person to accept it at face value. There are plenty of conservatives that want the rail service. They can't be blamed for everything that is disagreeable. Maybe
it's George Bush's fault.
Note that I did mention McCrory and Tillis as two conservative examples of rail supporters (with McCrory being the one that I voted for twice). As for "W", he was the president that approved Charlotte's portion of Federal dollars for the LYNX Blueline. Heck, this entire plan was pushed hard by McCrory to begin with.
However, these particular republicans are NOTHING like the rural conservatives that run Iredell. That was my point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
urban, if the folk in Iredell don't want the train, that their business. DOT & CATS have a choice. Either build a shorter line, to Davidson, or build a line where it's wanted - Gastonia & Kings Mountain. Oh, that's right, CATS doesn't want the people who want the line.
Yeah, Gaston seriously needs to be part of the plan (especially with the growth near the Cox Road area). Still though, I believe that politics will stop this train from leaving Mecklenburg county for at least the next 20 years.
Well that's the thing . . . we already are dealing with congestion for commutes on I-77. So you would think commuters would love using rail. What capacity would that line have, tho? I envision something like the LIE and I am told it is a far cry from comparable.
Where do you suppose most of the people who might use the rail for commuting to work would live in Mooresville?
My guess would be 28117 ie west of I77, so they would have to drive to Mounte Mourne (for the current red line proposal to get on the train anyway)
Need to rememeber that unlike Cornelius, Davidson and Hntersville, Mooresville currently doesn't have local public transport.
Also, unlike in Davidson for eg, majority of the high earners don't live in downtown Mooresville and certainly not in Mount Mourne.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Note that I did mention McCrory and Tillis as two conservative examples of rail supporters (with McCrory being the one that I voted for twice). As for "W", he was the president that approved Charlotte's portion of Federal dollars for the LYNX Blueline. Heck, this entire plan was pushed hard by McCrory to begin with.
However, these particular republicans are NOTHING like the rural conservatives that run Iredell. That was my point...
Yeah, Gaston seriously needs to be part of the plan (especially with the growth near the Cox Road area). Still though, I believe that politics will stop this train from leaving Mecklenburg county for at least the next 20 years.
The old P & N line ran commuter trains from Kings Mountain & Gastonia to Charlotte. Kings Mountain was a little country town then. The zip code is now over 28K. The city is over 11K, but is slow to annex because of the upfront expense (Kings Mountain provides all utilities, so they have to run electric, gas, water, & sewer lines.) Gastonia is over 70K & probably could annex another 5 or 10K people. This isn't from natives makin' like bunnies.
Gastonia tried to get CATS to cooperate for light rail & CATS refused, but yet CATS wants to include people who don't want to be included. Funny how things work, isn't it?
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