1st time at the new Charlotte Knights stadium (price, food)

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Most pitching changes occur when the sides change between halves of the innings. That makes 0 minutes for pitching changes.

That's assuming you have a fairly well pitched game. I'd say pitching changes are more common in the minors (to protect a pitchers confidence as he develops and to give other prospects some innings).

The article I linked pretty much laid out typical scenarios over the 3 games they watched:

Of course, there are moments in our sample that are beyond the control of any rule book. One of the most frequently blamed reasons for turning games into snorefests are the pitching changes. In our three-game sample, we totaled three inaction categories related to pitching changes. There was one catcher visit to the mound, for 52 seconds. There were three mound visits without a pitching change that averaged a minute and 19 seconds each. There were five in-inning pitching changes (all including a mound visit, of course) that averaged 3:11 per pitching change.

Now if we add this up you get:

52 seconds (catcher visits) + 237 seconds (mound visits) + 955 seconds (pitching changes) = 1244 seconds of downtime. Now divide that by 3 games and you get 414.7 seconds or about 7 minutes worth of pitcher related delays per game.

Regardless, this is just superfluous details we're debating. When one considers finding parking, walking to the stadium, getting there a little early to find your seat, national anthem, any other pre game festivities, walking back to the car, etc - a baseball game can easily be 18 minutes worth of action loosely packed into 4 hours. Of course a lot of people want something to eat or drink during that time. I wouldn't have been surprised to hear the Knights average $15+ per head on concessions.

[GoPhils]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

Yeah, I know what average means, but you don't like talking averages. If I'm discussing a broad topic such as "how much do people spend at a Knights game" - I'm going to look at average ticket prices and the average amount spent on concessions/souvenirs. I'm not going to dissect at tiny sliver (~5%) of attendees that are happy splitting pretzel between 4 people.

And like the Ruth Chris example I gave, just because someone makes a less than average income, that doesn't mean it takes significantly less money to have a good time at a game. People making $10/hr still like to eat at a ballgame. Their kids still like to have a souvenir.

So you would recommend Ruth Chris to a family wanting to spend $30 a meal just because they can order bread and water for under $30? Bread and water is technically a meal that will fill their tummy, right?

I didn't find a coupon, it's printed on the back of every ticket.

Have you ever played mini golf with 4 people on a Friday or Saturday night? It takes about 2 hours. It's not a 25 minute ordeal. Sure a a slow spectator sport like baseball takes 3 hours, but that's because there are so many lulls in the action (perfect for grabbing food!) - 10 minutes between innings, 7th inning stretch, 15 minutes to make a pitching change, etc.

Wasn't the entire premise of your original argument that Knights games were expensive to "some people"? That's why I said for those that thought it was expensive there were several ways to make it cost less than it otherwise could.

If we're talking averages, it's clearly not that expensive to the average person or else I doubt they'd be leading the league in attendance. I do agree with you that the average person probably isn't going to go that often, but that's not because it's that expensive, but they're probably varying the activities they do...maybe one weekend they'll go to the movies, another weekend they'll go to the Knights game, another weekend they'll go mini golfing, etc.

I wasn't recommending Ruth's Chris to anyone. I was saying I enjoy myself just fine there by ordering a steak and a glass of water (and maybe some mashed potatoes to share), whereas other people will order multiple appetizers and bottles of wine. Which is a great comparison to the Knights conversation. And you make it seem like I'm telling you to starve your children. If you don't like the concession prices, eat before you go. You do normally eat dinner, right?

But now I'm confused...you're complaining about the lulls of baseball games, but are fine with waiting an hour to play mini golf?

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Wasn't the entire premise of your original argument that Knights games were expensive to "some people"? That's why I said for those that thought it was expensive there were several ways to make it cost less than it otherwise could.

And that's why I made the Ruth Chris example. Expecting a family of four to attend a game while sharing a pretzel for 3-4 hours? That's laughable and doesn't represent the experience most people have or want. It's a slow moving spectator sport...young, old, poor or rich...most people want the full experience. Heck, a beer and dog at a baseball game is probably more of a tradition than the baseball game itself. Personally, you could feed me that Ruth Chris steak before the game and 2 hours later I'd probably want one of those hot dogs everyone has...not because I'm a big eater, but because they always taste better at a game.

If we're talking averages, it's clearly not that expensive to the average person or else I doubt they'd be leading the league in attendance.

New location and new stadium. Let's see how things pan out 5 years from now. Attendance is pretty irrelevant though - something can be expensive while still being popular.

I wasn't recommending Ruth's Chris to anyone. I was saying I enjoy myself just fine there by ordering a steak and a glass of water (and maybe some mashed potatoes to share), whereas other people will order multiple appetizers and bottles of wine. Which is a great comparison to the Knights conversation. And you make it seem like I'm telling you to starve your children. If you don't like the concession prices, eat before you go. You do normally eat dinner, right?

And if you don't like having to do that (or only getting bread and water at Ruth Chris) and don't want to pay concessions prices at Knights Stadium....DON'T GO. It's what I've been saying all a long. If an enjoyable ballgame experience for you involves eating/beer and maybe a souvenir for they kids, a Knights game may or may not be too expensive. Why is that such a debatable concept?

But now I'm confused...you're complaining about the lulls of baseball games, but are fine with waiting an hour to play mini golf?

Not sure why you're confused here. Who waits an hour for mini golf? You may wait 3-4 minutes between holes if they're a little busy. Regardless, I'm not complaining about the lulls of baseball - simply stating that a slow paced spectator sport lends itself well to concession stand visits.

[GoPhils]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

And that's why I made the Ruth Chris example. Expecting a family of four to attend a game while sharing a pretzel for 3-4 hours? That's laughable and doesn't represent the experience most people have or want. It's a slow moving spectator sport...young, old, poor or rich...most people want the full experience. Heck, a beer and dog at a baseball game is probably more of a tradition than the baseball game itself. Personally, you could feed me that Ruth Chris steak before the game and 2 hours later I'd probably want one of those hot dogs everyone has...not because I'm a big eater, but because they always taste better at a game.

New location and new stadium. Let's see how things pan out 5 years from now. Attendance is pretty irrelevant though - something can be expensive while still being popular.

And if you don't like having to do that (or only getting bread and water at Ruth Chris) and don't want to pay concessions prices at Knights Stadium....DON'T GO. It's what I've been saying all a long. If an enjoyable ballgame experience for you involves eating/beer and maybe a souvenir for they kids, a Knights game may or may not be too expensive. Why is that such a debatable concept?

Not sure why you're confused here. Who waits an hour for mini golf? You may wait 3-4 minutes between holes if they're a little busy. Regardless, I'm not complaining about the lulls of baseball - simply stating that a slow paced spectator sport lends itself well to concession stand visits.

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper here. You just said you have to wait a total of at least 54 minutes for mini golf...

Sorry, I didnt realize multiple comments like "action in baseball, ha!" wasn't complaining. Besides, I've already said that at minor league games the typical "lull" times (like between innings) are what kids often enjoy the most because that's when they usually do all the promotions. And if you find the games too long, don't stay the whole time, I'm sure the "average" person doesn't.

Yes, you've been saying all along that if one finds the Knights game expensive, they don't have to go and I agree, the point is the cost of a Knights game is comparable to many other options for family outings. The "average" family is going to want to do more than just hike and ride bikes. And sorry, high school sporting events aren't comparable. If you think pro baseball is boring, a HS game would be even moreso due to the lack of a mascot, promotions, etc.

But it's not fair to say its expensive to "some people" while at the same time harp on the "average price" when it's very easy to spend less than that.

Maybe you're stuck on the $50 I said earlier. Yes, that's without buying a whole lot there. If you really need to eat something there even after just eating and your kids really need a souvenir (which I still find laughable after you were bragging about never even asking to go to Disney World), you can still do it for well less than $100.

4 tickets: $32 (sorry, not conceding that you need to buy the most expensive ticket there is to enjoy the game)
Parking: $5
2 adult and 2 kids hot dogs (if it's not dollar hot dog night): $12
4 drinks: $15 (not conceding that you need a beer either, edit: and if you do I think they have drink promotions most Thursdays):
Two souvenirs: $10
Total: $74. For a family of 4, not bad at all

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

That's assuming you have a fairly well pitched game. I'd say pitching changes are more common in the minors (to protect a pitchers confidence as he develops and to give other prospects some innings).

The article I linked pretty much laid out typical scenarios over the 3 games they watched: Now if we add this up you get:

52 seconds (catcher visits) + 237 seconds (mound visits) + 955 seconds (pitching changes) = 1244 seconds of downtime. Now divide that by 3 games and you get 414.7 seconds or about 7 minutes worth of pitcher related delays per game.

Regardless, this is just superfluous details we're debating. When one considers finding parking, walking to the stadium, getting there a little early to find your seat, national anthem, any other pre game festivities, walking back to the car, etc - a baseball game can easily be 18 minutes worth of action loosely packed into 4 hours. Of course a lot of people want something to eat or drink during that time. I wouldn't have been surprised to hear the Knights average $15+ per head on concessions.

Here's the way I see it. I think that you are arguing for the sake of arguing. you cite scenarios to prove your own point. When other people cite different scenarios that are equally valid you seem to be incapable of accepting that there are different ways to look at the same things that are also valid. Go right ahead, but without me. This sort of thing makes threads tedious, in my opinion.

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper here. You just said you have to wait a total of at least 54 minutes for mini golf...

As I said, I'm not complaining about wait times. It's the nature of the beast in baseball. What I did say is that it lends itself well to concession stand visits. Baseball is a slow moving spectator sport - miniature golf is not. Miniature golf doesn't involve being glued to a seat watching 17 minutes of action for over 3 hours.

Sorry, I didnt realize multiple comments like "action in baseball, ha!" wasn't complaining. Besides, I've already said that at minor league games the typical "lull" times (like between innings) are what kids often enjoy the most because that's when they usually do all the promotions. And if you find the games too long, don't stay the whole time, I'm sure the "average" person doesn't.

So how many promotions do they have between innings at a typical game? You make it sound as though there are parties between every inning. I went as a kid and I believe I was able to run the bases one time (or it may have just been 1st base). Whoop-de-do. And don't stay the entire game? What kind of suggestion is that? If I'm at a sporting event and the score is at least somewhat close - I'm not leaving. Wow, if the average Knights fan is leaving early, the stands must be pretty bare after the 7th? Hopefully, that doesn't turn into a problem after the newness wares off.

Yes, you've been saying all along that if one finds the Knights game expensive, they don't have to go and I agree, the point is the cost of a Knights game is comparable to many other options for family outings.

And a lot of family outing are expensive to some. If a Knights game is one of those - don't go. Again, I don't see what's debatable. It seems like you would rather twist the arm of those that find it expensive and force them to come.

The "average" family is going to want to do more than just hike and ride bikes.

And again you are back to the straw man argument of saying riding bikes is the only cheaper option. It's one, but not the only. But heck, on a broader scale, looking at obesity in this country - we'd probably be a lot better off if people did gravitate toward more active and often cheaper options.

And sorry, high school sporting events aren't comparable. If you think pro baseball is boring, a HS game would be even moreso due to the lack of a mascot, promotions, etc.

Wouldn't that depend on how much one values seeing the mascot? What promotions do the Knights have? Perhaps some high schools have something similar? We had a mascot at my school. Honestly, the promotions the Knights have seem pretty cheesy and uneventful (granted, it's about impossible to entertain hundreds of kids between innings) . "Run the bases"? Ok. Looking at the Zooperstars? Get out of here.

But it's not fair to say its expensive to "some people" while at the same time harp on the "average price" when it's very easy to spend less than that.

The average transaction price gives us an idea of what the average family could expect to pay. That would likely be around $100-120. Some may really enjoy the game and find ways to go for less money and others may just not go back. That's just how it is.

Maybe you're stuck on the $50 I said earlier. Yes, that's without buying a whole lot there. If you really need to eat something there even after just eating and your kids really need a souvenir (which I still find laughable after you were bragging about never even asking to go to Disney World),

Another staw man argument. Who bragged about not going to Disney World? I never wanted to go. Believe it or not, it is possible to raise children without going to Disney World or other expensive events that the masses consider a requirement. Regardless, when my family did go somewhere, we bought what we wanted and had a good time. For example, at a Knights game, I had a hot dog, nachos and soda. I also got a pennant. Most of the other kids on my baseball team got about the same stuff.

you can still do it for well less than $100.

Where did I argue otherwise?

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Here's the way I see it. I think that you are arguing for the sake of arguing. you cite scenarios to prove your own point. When other people cite different scenarios that are equally valid you seem to be incapable of accepting that there are different ways to look at the same things that are also valid. Go right ahead, but without me. This sort of thing makes threads tedious, in my opinion.

Not really. My only argument has been that some families may find an enjoyable experience too expensive. That's it.

[GoPhils]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

So how many promotions do they have between innings at a typical game? You make it sound as though there are parties between every inning. I went as a kid and I believe I was able to run the bases one time (or it may have just been 1st base). Whoop-de-do. And don't stay the entire game? What kind of suggestion is that? If I'm at a sporting event and the score is at least somewhat close - I'm not leaving. Wow, if the average Knights fan is leaving early, the stands must be pretty bare after the 7th? Hopefully, that doesn't turn into a problem after the newness wares off.

And again you are back to the straw man argument of saying riding bikes is the only cheaper option. It's one, but not the only. But heck, on a broader scale, looking at obesity in this country - we'd probably be a lot better off if people did gravitate toward more active and often cheaper options.


Wouldn't that depend on how much one values seeing the mascot? What promotions do the Knights have? Perhaps some high schools have something similar? We had a mascot at my school. Honestly, the promotions the Knights have seem pretty cheesy and uneventful (granted, it's about impossible to entertain hundreds of kids between innings) . "Run the bases"? Ok. Looking at the Zooperstars? Get out of here.

Another staw man argument. Who bragged about not going to Disney World? I never wanted to go. Believe it or not, it is possible to raise children without going to Disney World or other expensive events that the masses consider a requirement. Regardless, when my family did go somewhere, we bought what we wanted and had a good time. For example, at a Knights game, I had a hot dog, nachos and soda. I also got a pennant. Most of the other kids on my baseball team got about the same stuff.

Where did I argue otherwise?

Minor league games often have promotions between almost every inning, whether it be throwing tshirts into the crowd, a kid racing against the mascot, etc. No, they're not terribly exciting but they usually do a decent job of keeping kids somewhat entertained as many times they enjoy that more than the game itself. But you clearly have never seen the Zooperstars. I'm not a kid and I'd probably pay the $8 just to see them (only half-joking).

I'm a baseball fan and I know "the average" person doesn't really care who wins any minor league game and as a result won't stay for the whole game. Heck, a lot of people don't even stay for the whole game at MLB games (that I disagree with).

I didn't only bring up riding bikes, for one I pointed out that a HS game is not comparable to a pro game-most teams do not have mascots or promotions that are comparable to what you'd see at a minor league game. And I didn't say not to ride bikes, just that riding bikes is not really what most would consider a family night out.

You most certainly did brag about never even asking to go to Disney World. And that's good for you, I just find it funny that in spite of that fact, you seem to have incredibly high standards for what constitutes an enjoyable experience at a minor league baseball game. Yes, you agreed that someone could spend less than "the average," but claimed that would be no fun at all. I was further pointing out that you could still keep It well below "the average" even if you did need to have some food, drinks and a souvenir in order to have fun.

[GoPhils]

Originally Posted by eddiehaskell

Not really. My only argument has been that some families may find an enjoyable experience too expensive. That's it.

Some families probably do. The "average" family, probably not. I give up...

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Minor league games often have promotions between almost every inning, whether it be throwing tshirts into the crowd, a kid racing against the mascot, etc. No, they're not terribly exciting but they usually do a decent job of keeping kids somewhat entertained as many times they enjoy that more than the game itself. But you clearly have never seen the Zooperstars. I'm not a kid and I'd probably pay the $8 just to see them (only half-joking).

Keeping kids somewhat entertained - I worry about baseball's future in 15-20 years.

I'm a baseball fan and I know "the average" person doesn't really care who wins any minor league game and as a result won't stay for the whole game. Heck, a lot of people don't even stay for the whole game at MLB games (that I disagree with).

I'd say this supports what I've said more than anything. If the average Knights "fan" doesn't care who wins - what are they doing during the game? Like many sports events, I'm sure many just see it as a reason to drink beer.

I didn't only bring up riding bikes, for one I pointed out that a HS game is not comparable to a pro game-most teams do not have mascots or promotions that are comparable to what you'd see at a minor league game. And I didn't say not to ride bikes, just that riding bikes is not really what most would consider a family night out.

I'm sure the Knights have their promotions, but how much is the average kid involved? I do remember them throwing things in to stands, but my first memory of that was cheerleaders throwing little footballs to the fans at the local high school football game. Bottom line, if you expect the Knights to entertain your child for 3 hours, don't be surprised if they're sleeping by the 6th.

You most certainly did brag about never even asking to go to Disney World. And that's good for you, I just find it funny that in spite of that fact, you seem to have incredibly high standards for what constitutes an enjoyable experience at a minor league baseball game.

Can you quote me? I have no memory of this and as a person that almost never brags about anything, I'd find such comments out of character.

Yes, you agreed that someone could spend less than "the average," but claimed that would be no fun at all. I was further pointing out that you could still keep It well below "the average" even if you did need to have some food, drinks and a souvenir in order to have fun.

I never said that. I can't definitively say what constitutes fun for everyone. All I can do is look at the average concession/ticket price and get an idea of what the average family will spend at a Knights game. That appears to be in the $100-120 range. The Knights are happy with that and plenty of people are going to games. However, that is likely expensive for many families in and around Charlotte. What is there to argue?