DA: No charges against man who shot suspect (Charlotte: safety, title)
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In North Carolina, Justified Self Defense is derived from North Carolina Common Law and a few statutory laws. North Carolina has the so called "Castle Doctrine". Read below for more details on this important home defense statute.
NC GENERAL STATUTE 14‑51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. (This is commonly called the "Castle Doctrine.")
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.
(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section.
ANSWER TO QUESTION 2:
North Carolina law does not allow the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An owner can defend his or her property using reasonable and necessary force, but not deadly force. A property owner cannot shoot a thief before, during, or after a theft. The same rule prohibits deadly force to prevent injury or vandalism to property.
ANSWER TO QUESTION 3:
See answer to question 2. In addition, no matter how serious the crime, a citizen cannot shoot to stop a fleeing criminal.
Oh my good Lord. To recap... he did not chase them to get his property back nor did he use force to get his property back. He chased them to help the police try and arrest them at which time one of them turned toward him causing him to fear for his life (because he KNEW they were armed) and shoot to PROTECT himself.
Oh my good Lord. To recap... he did not chase them to get his property back nor did he use force to get his property back. He chased them to help the police try and arrest them at which time one of them turned toward him causing him to fear for his life (because he KNEW they were armed) and shoot to PROTECT himself.
He didn't withdraw in good faith. He followed them and put himself in danger, not to mention he knew they had guns.
He didn't withdraw in good faith. He followed them and put himself in danger, not to mention he knew they had guns.
You should give up trying to have this discussion. Shortly you will:
1) Be accused of being deliberately dense and trying to rile up the masses
2) Be accused of being sympathetic with criminals, soft on crime, and a bleeding heart pansy
3) Be accused of calling McClure a liar, of saying the shooting was premeditated,
4) Be told that people like you are the reason behind Charlotte's crime problem.
and best of all
5) start receiving rep points from some troll too scared to send you a direct message. Said troll will leave you nasty messages with their rep points and make make threatening statements about your personal safety.
See all you have to look forward to if you venture on....
You should give up trying to have this discussion. Shortly you will:
1) Be accused of being deliberately dense and trying to rile up the masses
2) Be accused of being sympathetic with criminals, soft on crime, and a bleeding heart pansy
3) Be accused of calling McClure a liar, of saying the shooting was premeditated,
4) Be told that people like you are the reason behind Charlotte's crime problem.
and best of all
5) start receiving rep points from some troll too scared to send you a direct message. Said troll will leave you nasty messages with their rep points and make make threatening statements about your personal safety.
See all you have to look forward to if you venture on....
This is an interesting topic as I am thinking about buying a gun soon and now live in NC. From the research I've done on the "castle law" you aren't allowed to take justice into your own hands any time you want. I didn't read the whole story but from what I can tell this older gentleman jumped into his car and followed the suspects.
This is a big no-no and private citizens can't be vigilantes. In NC, a gun is used to defend yourself in your home only from an intruder. There are some states with newer laws that extend that to your car and even if you are in a public area (like this one) and that is known as the "stand your ground" law. However it is my understanding that NC does not have that law in effect.
Furthermore, even if it did, it would probably not apply as this gentleman went after those thugs, they didn't come to him.
I understand your concern about vigilantes. One of the first things you learn about owning a gun is what a huge responsibility it is and what you should and shouldn't do with it.
Our HOA group once had a cop tell us that if you shoot someone trying to break down your front door just be sure to drag him inside the house before you call 911. We all know once you shoot a gun outside the confines of your home you have to prove you were in grave fear for your life.
It would appear based on the DA's decision that Mr. MCClure fit the criteria for being in fear for his life and does not fall in the vigilante category. He DID NOT go after them to extract "justice" or to hurt them, but when he felt threatened (yet again) he did protect himself - which was his right.
He didn't withdraw in good faith. He followed them and put himself in danger, not to mention he knew they had guns.
Well I am not sure what "he didn't withdraw in good faith" means but According to the DA, chasing them for the reason the man gave did not mean he did not still have the right to self defense. So I guess you could say you know NC laws better than the DA but I doubt you would be right.
3) Be accused of calling McClure a liar, of saying the shooting was premeditated....
I'd have to look back and see all your posts but to the best of my recollection the only person who insinuated McClure was lying was Susan42. Several times she made statements like, his story doesn't make sense or I'm not sure what he motive was...
So yes I did feel she she inferring Mr McClure was a liar.
I think that folks who do not live here in Charlotte may not understand the term "thug" and why it applies in this situation. And anyone who feels these are just misguided kids who got sucked into something b/c of peer pressure . . . well, they just haven't taken a hard look at the rap sheets of these repeat offenders here in Charlotte. And they haven't looked at the FBI crime figures for MECK . . . and they haven't seen the repeat offenders escalate their violence and threaten their victims - as well as the folks in their own neighborhoods - to the point that people won't turn these kids in. They are out of control and they wield guns - and use them. They shoot each other and they don't hesitate to shoot anyone who crosses their paths. The males who continue to perpetuate this violent behavior are almost always under 25, and a big % of that group is 21 y/o or younger.
We have had years of our DA's Revolving Door Policy and we have had years of the Hug-A-Thug mentality - and for those who don't live here . . . ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - but since you don't live here - maybe you cant understand.
For anyone who thinks the average citizen out here should be coddling these miscreants - start reading the rap sheets, viewing the mug sheets, and looking up these kids' myspace pages. They brag about being "baby daddies" at 15 and glorify their gangsta behavior. If you think you can be nice to them when they invade your home, and they will "go away" - you are sadly mistaken.
Until you spend some time seeing what we are dealing with here with home invasions and sociopathic and/or antisocial kids . . . singing Kumbaya to the populace and giving us lectures on gun ownership not only looks out of touch, it looks condescending.
I don't need a lecture about gun ownership, violence in this country or a social discourse on "turning lives around." As a society, I think we have all become quite aware that what is going on at home has more to do with this behavior than anything else . . . so talk to these kids' parents (if you can find one at home) and ask them what they are gonna do with their little miscreants. All the whining in the world about how society should have done more for these kids ain't gonna do a thing to change who they are. Being violent and defying the law is a DECISION and unfortunately, too many kids today think it is cool to do just that.
No one cares if anyone owns a gun. That is each person's decision. But I can assure you - with the thugs having guns, you better believe I am gonna have mine. I didn't feel this way while I lived in an area that wasn't being affected with sociopathic kids with no conscience, but the facts are: that is where I live now. No burb is immune. These kids believe whatever you have is theirs, b/c they have been taught that the rest of us have "kept them down" and we OWE whatever they want to them. Now that is plain talk and sorry if goes against some of your sensibilities, but that is how I see it.
They can walk off with my belongings but they are not going to threaten me with my life. Just b/c these kids don't value their lives, that doesn't mean I don't value mine - and Mr. McClure evidently valued his - something these kids need to learn b/f they make the decision to criminally intimidate us in our homes.
ETA: For those of you who keep arguing about this decision not being lawful, I am posting FOR THE THIRD TIME that a Grand Jury did not return an indictment. This was not some capricious decision by the DA here.
Last edited by brokensky; 09-22-2009 at 01:59 PM..
Reason: added last sentence
You should give up trying to have this discussion. Shortly you will:
1) Be accused of being deliberately dense and trying to rile up the masses
2) Be accused of being sympathetic with criminals, soft on crime, and a bleeding heart pansy
3) Be accused of calling McClure a liar, of saying the shooting was premeditated,
4) Be told that people like you are the reason behind Charlotte's crime problem.
and best of all
5) start receiving rep points from some troll too scared to send you a direct message. Said troll will leave you nasty messages with their rep points and make make threatening statements about your personal safety.
See all you have to look forward to if you venture on....
With all due respect, Baybook, I didn't see anyone accusing you of any of those things. I have no idea if someone wrote you a note with a rep (at least you got points out of it, lol). But as for the rest . . . that doesn't look like recap of what folks have replied to you at all.
ETA: you should let MODs know if you got a threatening note . . . they may be able to trace that.
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