Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lots of interesting info on Illinois' Interactive School Report Card
Flossmoor is way more then 25% black, the elementary school district is 65% black right now.
The once vaunted Homewood-Flossmoor High School is now on the state's early academic warning list.
South Holland is no longer diverse, at least not in black and white. One of their school districts is almost entirely black. The other is about 75% black, 25% Hispanic. I found that pretty interesting, I never would have imagined a large Hispanic population in SH.
The only towns in south Cook County (east of I-57) with any significant number of white residents are Homewood (40%), Lansing (30% in one of two districts), and Thornton (60%).
Country Club Hills, Hazel Crest and Matteson school districts are 90% or more black.
Diversity is great, but an all black community is no more diverse then an all white one. There is also nothing inherently racist about whites being hesitant to move to an all black community. People feel most comfortable when there are people similar to themselves nearby, both in race and class . This is why few black people live in Du Page County, upper middle class black professionals live in Flossmoor instead of Harvey, and Cermak Rd. in Cicero resembles Main St. in Nuevo Laredo.
Homewood and Matteson would still be at the top of my list if it was still 1/2 white and 1/2 black. In all honesty I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel there today though.
Also, you border towns like Harvey and Markham, and there are some gang problems in CCH and Hazel Crest. There have been some shootings, armed robberies and car jackings in and around Homewood and Flossmoor.
Then, as has been mentioned, if you work in the 'burbs, it will probably north or west and involve a staggeringly long commute.
So, yes, Flossmoor is still a pretty great town, but with a lot of caveats.
I know many are pushing for diversity. Well, South Holland is certainly diverse, or at least in the process of going from white to black (diversity is usually a 10-20 year transition from one race to another, which we commonly mistake as diversity).
That area is getting worse. Empty business and lots of people standing on corners (159th street). I know that South Holland is often seen as successful community with middle class blacks but perhaps the middle class blacks are moving out and the displaced CHA residents are moving in.
I think the same thing could in time happen to Flossmor and Olympia Fields. The school districts are already hurting. The same thing has already happened in Crete. Homewood may be able to hold out longer as they seem to run a tight ship but even then it is only a matter of time before new residents (low-income blacks) change things.
Well south holland has a population over 20,000 people so of course there are going to be areas of town that are better than others. But all in all south holland is middle class. Granted it has a more urban feel to it than the farther out suburbs being an inner ring suburb and a bit closer to the city. It attracts alot of middle class income people from the south side of chicago who want a suburban atmosphere but still want to live 15 minutes from the city. The location of south holland does make it an inner ring southern suburb which tend to be more working class. Although, south holland is more solidly middle class because of it's more middle class looking housing stock and the income levels of the people that south holland attracts. It is surrounded by more working class burbs with working class housing stocks like markham, harvey, and calumet city. But, the average household income within south holland is $71,000. So that makes South Holland in itself a solidly middle class suburb surrounded by working class inner ring suburbs. It's truly one of a kind if you want to live in a middle class burb but still be that close to the southside. South holland is suprisingly safe for the location that it is in. It has all of the amenities of a solidly middle class burb and the property taxes are also lower compared to many comparable income burbs. It has it's own grocery stores like jewels and even has a walts. A nice starbucks coffee shop. Lot's of dry cleaners, breakfast pancake houses, carry out places, small office buildings for local businesses, and some restaraunts. Not to mention all the shopping, movie theaters, and restaurants within 5 minutes at the river oaks mall area in calumet city. South suburban college is also located in south holland. There isnt a ton of closed businesses. What are you refering to? Maybe one small business here and there do to the economy. It's too populated of a solid income suburb to have retail issues and it is so close to the city that many come from the southside who live in area that are under served come to shop there and at river oaks. The pace bus routes run heavy in the area being an inner ring burb, and being surrounded by working class towns. So, yes more people maybe walking around on the main streets. It also has a couple of subdivisions that are more upper middle class with larger newer constructed homes. But, the housing stock is no where near what you would find in flossmoor or an olympia fields which are more affluent suburbs. I always think of south holland as maybe a more inner ring suburban homewood that is closer to the southside and not surrounded by as nice of areas. Not as nice and suburban friendly as homewood for that reason. You know the established local bar and grills, local taverns, nice restaurants, being next to flossmoor, and the stuff that homewood's more friendly established suburban downtown has.
Last edited by allen2323; 08-18-2010 at 07:56 PM..
Lots of interesting info on Illinois' Interactive School Report Card
Flossmoor is way more then 25% black, the elementary school district is 65% black right now.
The once vaunted Homewood-Flossmoor High School is now on the state's early academic warning list.
South Holland is no longer diverse, at least not in black and white. One of their school districts is almost entirely black. The other is about 75% black, 25% Hispanic. I found that pretty interesting, I never would have imagined a large Hispanic population in SH.
The only towns in south Cook County (east of I-57) with any significant number of white residents are Homewood (40%), Lansing (30% in one of two districts), and Thornton (60%).
Country Club Hills, Hazel Crest and Matteson school districts are 90% or more black.
Diversity is great, but an all black community is no more diverse then an all white one. There is also nothing inherently racist about whites being hesitant to move to an all black community. People feel most comfortable when there are people similar to themselves nearby, both in race and class . This is why few black people live in Du Page County, upper middle class black professionals live in Flossmoor instead of Harvey, and Cermak Rd. in Cicero resembles Main St. in Nuevo Laredo.
Homewood and Matteson would still be at the top of my list if it was still 1/2 white and 1/2 black. In all honesty I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel there today though.
Also, you border towns like Harvey and Markham, and there are some gang problems in CCH and Hazel Crest. There have been some shootings, armed robberies and car jackings in and around Homewood and Flossmoor.
Then, as has been mentioned, if you work in the 'burbs, it will probably north or west and involve a staggeringly long commute.
So, yes, Flossmoor is still a pretty great town, but with a lot of caveats.
I'm not quite sure that you can look to the schools in the south suburbs to find direct reflection of the ethnic makeup of each town.
It should be true - but in truth, a majority of the white families send their kids to private schools.
And it's sad to hear about HF ... it was once such a top performing school.
I'm not quite sure that you can look to the schools in the south suburbs to find direct reflection of the ethnic makeup of each town.
It should be true - but in truth, a majority of the white families send their kids to private schools.
And it's sad to hear about HF ... it was once such a top performing school.
Well, if the school figures are accurate for Flossmoor and Homewood it would be almost the exact opposite of the ratios per the 2000 Census. I think that's a definite possibility, though it will certainly be interesting to see the results from the 2010 Census.
In 2000, CCH and Hazel Crest were 80 and 75% black, so the 90% figure in the schools today probably represents the communities pretty accurately.
Matteson was at 60% and South Holland at 50%, but I think we'll find the current school figures match the population pretty closely.
Also, South Holland and CCH lost their Starbucks a couple of years ago. Their middle class status seems a bit shaky. On the other hand, Homewood has 3 locations, two of them within a mile of each other. Plus a Caribou in between. I can't figure out how that they can support that many.
Well, if the school figures are accurate for Flossmoor and Homewood it would be almost the exact opposite of the ratios per the 2000 Census. I think that's a definite possibility, though it will certainly be interesting to see the results from the 2010 Census.
In 2000, CCH and Hazel Crest were 80 and 75% black, so the 90% figure in the schools today probably represents the communities pretty accurately.
Matteson was at 60% and South Holland at 50%, but I think we'll find the current school figures match the population pretty closely.
Also, South Holland and CCH lost their Starbucks a couple of years ago. Their middle class status seems a bit shaky. On the other hand, Homewood has 3 locations, two of them within a mile of each other. Plus a Caribou in between. I can't figure out how that they can support that many.
The majority of country club hills and south holland is middle class. But, I guess it all depends on what you consider the financial cutoff to be for middle class. The average household income in country club hills is $68,000 and in south holand it is $71,000. In Tinley park it is $73,000. You have to include all the households living in rented apartments, condos, and townhomes. Not just owner occupied single family homes. Tinley park has alot of apartments. That is why areas with no apartments at all like olympia fields tend to be more affluent.
prairiestate;15530386]Lots of interesting info on Illinois' Interactive School Report Card
Flossmoor is way more then 25% black, the elementary school district is 65% black right now.
Illinois is 65% white(non hispanic), yet white kids represent 53% of the schools according to iirc. I'm not sure if the stats included private schools. I tried to find info on Marion Catholic High in Chicago Heights on Illinois interactive school report card and the school isn't listed on there.
Flossmoor has more white people than black people, but white families have kids at a lower rate and an older population. And many of those that do have kids tend to send them to private school for a number of reasons, including not feeling comfortable having their kids in a school that is not white enough for them. Interesting enough, Tinley Park H.S. is 26% black, despite that black people only represent 4% of the community.
Quote:
South Holland is no longer diverse, at least not in black and white. One of their school districts is almost entirely black. The other is about 75% black, 25% Hispanic. I found that pretty interesting, I never would have imagined a large Hispanic population in SH.
2 out of 4 of the schools in the district are in Harvey and Phoenix. Taft School (South Holland SD 151) in Harvey is 41% Hispanic. Coolidge Middle School in Phoenix is 16% Hispanic. Holmes Elementary nearby is 67% Hispanic but its in Harvey SD 152.
Quote:
Homewood and Matteson would still be at the top of my list if it was still 1/2 white and 1/2 black. In all honesty I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel there today though.
I still see a high amount of whites in Homewood.
Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 08-19-2010 at 01:58 AM..
The majority of country club hills and south holland is middle class. But, I guess it all depends on what you consider the financial cutoff to be for middle class. The average household income in country club hills is $68,000 and in south holand it is $71,000. In Tinley park it is $73,000. You have to include all the households living in rented apartments, condos, and townhomes. Not just owner occupied single family homes. Tinley park has alot of apartments. That is why areas with no apartments at all like olympia fields tend to be more affluent.
Average income is kind of meaningless. A few very wealthy or poor individuals can skew the results. Median income is much more accurate. Just looking at the business districts in CCH and Hazel Crest it seems like they're just barely middle class. Lots of vacant storefronts, dollar stores, beauty supply shops, fried chicken and fish restaurants. CCH is even struggling to maintain a single pancake house. I can hardly think of another middle class suburb without one, it seems to be a pretty basic type of business.
I haven't been to South Holland for several years, but the last time I was there the business district did look pretty healthy, especially considering the blue laws that take away a day of sales for most stores.
Lots of interesting info on Illinois' Interactive School Report Card
Flossmoor is way more then 25% black, the elementary school district is 65% black right now.
The once vaunted Homewood-Flossmoor High School is now on the state's early academic warning list.
South Holland is no longer diverse, at least not in black and white. One of their school districts is almost entirely black. The other is about 75% black, 25% Hispanic. I found that pretty interesting, I never would have imagined a large Hispanic population in SH.
The only towns in south Cook County (east of I-57) with any significant number of white residents are Homewood (40%), Lansing (30% in one of two districts), and Thornton (60%).
Country Club Hills, Hazel Crest and Matteson school districts are 90% or more black.
Diversity is great, but an all black community is no more diverse then an all white one. There is also nothing inherently racist about whites being hesitant to move to an all black community. People feel most comfortable when there are people similar to themselves nearby, both in race and class . This is why few black people live in Du Page County, upper middle class black professionals live in Flossmoor instead of Harvey, and Cermak Rd. in Cicero resembles Main St. in Nuevo Laredo.
Homewood and Matteson would still be at the top of my list if it was still 1/2 white and 1/2 black. In all honesty I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel there today though.
Also, you border towns like Harvey and Markham, and there are some gang problems in CCH and Hazel Crest. There have been some shootings, armed robberies and car jackings in and around Homewood and Flossmoor.
Then, as has been mentioned, if you work in the 'burbs, it will probably north or west and involve a staggeringly long commute.
So, yes, Flossmoor is still a pretty great town, but with a lot of caveats.
I think you are pretty far off here.. A recent newsletter from H/F highschool examined this very issue and showed that less than 5% of Flossmoor's population had a child enrolled in the school district. Using your logic- Beverly is 95.8% black (Morgan Park High).
The American Community Survey done by the Census Bureau in '08 polled the entire population living in the H/F district-this includes Glenwood and Chicago Heights. Even including these mostly black area's- White % was around 55%, black around 40%.
The Chicago tribune uses Home-Turf marketing to publish updated demographics by town and neighborhood in the Chicagoland area. They pull the information from real estate transactions. Homewood went as high as 24% black in '06, and has come down to 19% in '10 (foreclosures?).
Obviously, the Census will be the most accurate judge of this issue. But, living here for quite some time, I would be surprised if you were even close with your "40% white" Homewood figure ( can't speak for the other areas).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not very accurate..
